Posted on 04/05/2014 7:41:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Some of you may remember a year or two ago I posted a question about an umpire's call that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Now I'd like to again ask my fellow FReepers to explain to me something I've seen in a baseball game that makes no sense.
Last night in the St. Louis/Pittsburgh game, bottom of the first inning: the lead-off batter, Marte, walks. Man on first. The next batter hits a broken bat liner to the shortstop who catches it and steps on second. It is called an unassisted double play.
Now, as I understand it, the moment the ball was caught the force play at second should have been killed. Marte would have had to have been tagged or the ball thrown to first base. Yet from what I saw, the shortstop merely caught the ball and then stepped on second, and the play was definitely unassisted (so he didn't throw to first). How does this get Marte out? Is there some arcane rule that says in certain situations the fly out doesn't kill the force?
Every time I think I know this game . . . !
An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
The only way it could have been a double play is if there were also a runner on 2nd base....Are you sure there wasn’t?
Only if the infielder throws the ball to the first baseman before the runner returns to the bag.......According to Zionist, there was no throw to first base......
Travis Snider lines into an unassisted double play, shortstop Jhonny Peralta. Starling Marte doubled off 1st.
There's one crucial element you are leaving out of this equation. The runner is not "automatically" out. The infielder must either throw the ball to first before the runner returns to the bag, OR, as in this case, the infielder tags the runner before he can return to first base.......
There MUST be either the throw to first or the tag out......
If I were to say to you : "the base runner is taking a lead off first base" what do you suppose that means?
Book mark
Again, not true. The runner may indeed start to run before the ball is caught. If he goes back to the base where he started, he is NOT out.
You are reading little league rules, and you are WRONG and bull headed for being so insistent. If the infielder had tagged first base, the base that Marte had occupied, he would have been out.
Yikes,this discussion was going on when I went to bed last night.
You are right,of course,you can start running before the ball is caught.
.
Anyway, mystery solved. Thank you!
(I could have sworn there was no tag!)
I suppose the video speaks for itself, but sometimes an umpire anticipates what will happen. Modern players, especially stars, frequently go casual; not running out a play, one-handed fly ball catches, etc. An umpire sees a runner in this situation slow down and ‘give up’, allowing himself to get an inevitable tag. Sometimes the ump will call him out even if the tag is not actually completed.
My one claim to fame in baseball: I made an unassisted triple play in a slow pitch church league.
I was playing second base and runners on first and second took off on a pitch. I ran to second base, anticipating a throw from the catcher. But the hitter slapped a line drive directly over second base as I arrived there. I jumped up and caught the ball and came down down on the base, doubling up the runner from second. The runner from first was almost at the base and I tagged him.
It all happened without much conscious thought on my part and at the end, everyone on the field and in the stands just went very quiet while they tried to assimilate what had happened. The umpires ruled it a triple play and pandemonium broke out.
I never had any comparable experience throughout my playing time up to college freshman.
I guess it makes sense. If an outfielder saw some moon shot, certain to clear the fence for a HR, why NOT try to throw your glove and knock the ball down.
Hence what seems a stiff penalty really isn't.
That's just one of the many things that makes baseball special. For six months there are multiple games every single day, and every single game has the potential to be a perfect game, or to produce an unassisted triple play, or an inside-the-park home run, or a cycle, etc., etc., etc.
I really wish now I had gotten into watching baseball as a little kid in the 60's. My mother's brothers would come and watch the weekly games on NBC and I'd just stare in absolute confusion. There was only one sport I cared about, and that was that there perfessional rasslin'! Baseball was kind of boring compared to that.
Meanwhile, while I knew nothing about baseball and cared nothing for it, I ironically became absolutely enchanted by baseball history. I would check out books about the old players (Babe Ruth and before) and would just eat it up. I didn't even understand all the records I was reading about, but it was just so . . . fascinating! Yet watching modern players on television didn't appeal to me at all. And just think, if only I had been watching games on TV I would have seen the likes of Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, and Willie Mays.
My love of baseball came to me very late, and I'm sure I still don't know all the rules (especially regarding balks, which I've given up on trying to understand). That's why when I see something weird like this, my first thought is "so this is something else I'm just now learning about!"
Anyway, congratulations to you on your UTP.
Ah, but you forget that the infield fly rule can't be called when there's only one base runner. You have to have runners at first and second or first, second, and third. There was just one guy on first this time.
I have never heard of such a thing. Every time the ball is hit the runners take off. If the ball is caught they merely return to their bases of origin and tag up. The idea that they are automatically out merely because they left base before the ball is caught is something I have never heard of nor have I ever seen it enforced a single time. The ball is hit, the runners take off. Period. They don't wait to see if it's caught, and if it is they simply return to their base and tag up. The only way to put them out is to get the ball back to their original base before they get there.
At any rate, according to the play-by-play that's been posted Marte was tagged (even though I certainly didn't see it).
Thank you for the screen grab and for the clarification. My possibly aspergian mind must have malfunctioned at that precise moment.
“I don’t much about baseball”
That’s ok TT. Many posters here know even less.
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