On Your Side: Law enforcement seizes money without arrest

MyNews4.com ^ | February 5, 2014 | MyNews4.com

[Altariel]

WINNEMUCCA, Nev. (MyNews4.com & KRNV) -- Imagine getting pulled over for a traffic stop, and instead of getting a ticket, the officer takes your money. All of it.

It happened to one man recently, who was driving on Interstate 80 through Northern Nevada. Now, he is fighting back.

It's a case that focuses on our rights: Can law enforcement take your money or property, even if you are not charged with a crime?

The driver was Tan Nguyen of California. He has filed a lawsuit in federal court against the Humboldt County Sheriff's Office and District Attorney. His attorney, John Ohlson said, "The basis of the stop was he was going 78 in a 75. The stop ended in a search, and the deputy took $50,000 from my client that belonged to him."

Nguyen was not arrested. He was not charged with any crime. But Humboldt County Sergeant Lee Dove decided to confiscate a bundle of cash Nguyen happened to be carrying: $50,000 worth. Sergeant Dove even posed for a photo after seizing the cash.

In this incident report, Sergeant Dove observed that Nguyen seemed "nervous", was "argumentative", and that the car smelled of marijuana. No drugs were found during the stop.

Nguyen was not cited for doing anything illegal, although Sergeant Dove wrote in his report, "I felt he was not part of the legal traveling public," which he cited as justification for taking Nguyen's money.

When asked why Nguyen had so much cash, Ohlson responded, "I think it doesn't matter. I think the point is as long as there is U.S. currency in circulation, and we're allowed to have it, you can carry it."

This case seems to raise a lot of questions about all of our rights as citizens. The Humboldt County Sheriff Ed Kilgore was asked if he had any concerns about how the money was seized during this stop.

"At this point, I can't comment, since its an active litigation," Kilgore said.

But Humboldt County Assistant District Attorney Kevin Pasquale responded by saying, "If we think the money was obtained illegally, we have a right to seize it."

Does law enforcement have that kind of power? That's the question. This case is now headed to federal court, where a judge will decide whether authorities had a right to take Nguyen's money.

"You can have $50 and decide to buy drugs with it," Ohlson concluded. "But until you by the drugs, there's no crime."

Ohlson says he has heard of several other similar cases, where people had their money seized even though they were not charged with a crime. So far, only one known lawsuit has been filed.

[IC Ken]

Fuzzy. If caught with more than 10 k CASH. They can take it.

[DCBryan1]

Drive should show him a gold coin, and say, I sold a bunch of gold coins for cash. Here is one left I’ll sell you for $2,000.00 oz ;)

[DCBryan1]

Fuzzy. If caught with more than 10 k CASH. They can take it.

I don't think that is correct. If you have more than $10,000.00 cash That you cannot explain I would think they could. I don't think even that is right, but I'll let the FR legal eagles chime in. Ive carried more than that to gun shows in cash and had no problems since I had my bank deliver it to me the day before the gunshow and I had a receipt and personal friendship and business relationship with the banker.

[Focault's Pendulum]

You win!

[SkyDancer]

Okay, you can keep the nickle.

[Focault's Pendulum]

You need a receipt?

[Altariel]

Our “elected officials” have likewise not been legally charged or convicted in their multiple schemes which violate the Constitution.

According to you, they must not have violated the Constitution.

I’m seeing a pattern: government employees who think the Constitution doesn’t apply to them.

Fancy that.

[IC Ken]

DC,
This is not a new law. 10 K if you get caught you MIGHT be able to get it back but I think it was created to help stop the underground economy. Not just drugs but all bog cash transactions.

[Georgia Girl 2]

“If we think the money was obtained illegally, we have a right to seize it.”

What they are really saying is if they happen to see you with a lot of money they are going to steal it.

[GBA]

You do what you have to do in a crisis and this is a war!

Feds Say: 'Pilots Have No Rights' Published: Jun 13, 2013

He also told us that during the training he was taught that the pilots were to be treated as though they had no right to refuse the search. “What they taught law enforcement officers and agents was that all aircraft can be detained since they all fall under the . . . authority of the FAA.” He continued that, “this in effect gives them complete search authority of any aircraft.”

The agents teaching the course admitted during instruction that the stops had a very low rate of success in finding drug traffickers. Our source said one agent admitted that the stops involved “a lot of empty work but when you get a bite, it’s a big bite.”

[Sirius Lee]

Okay, you can keep the nickle.

Here's your wooden token back.

[moonshinner_09]

This same thing happened in MONTEREY, Tenn,back in Jan 2012..
Man Loses $22,000 In New ‘Policing For Profit’ Case
MONTEREY, Tenn. — “If somebody told me this happened to them, I absolutely would not believe this could happen in America.”

That was the reaction of a New Jersey man who found out just how risky it can be to carry cash through Tennessee.

For more than a year, NewsChannel 5 Investigates has been shining a light on a practice that some call “policing for profit.”
See previous stories:
“NC5 Investigates: Policing For Profit”

In this latest case, a Monterey police officer took $22,000 off the driver — even though he had committed no crime.

“You live in the United States, you think you have rights — and apparently you don’t,” said George Reby.

As a professional insurance adjuster, Reby spends a lot of time traveling from state to state. But it was on a trip to a conference in Nashville last January that he got a real education in Tennessee justice.

“I never had any clue that they thought they could take my money legally,” Reby added. “I didn’t do anything wrong.”

Reby was driving down Interstate 40, heading west through Putnam County, when he was stopped for speeding.

A Monterey police officer wanted to know if he was carrying any large amounts of cash.

“I said, ‘Around $20,000,’” he recalled. “Then, at the point, he said, ‘Do you mind if I search your vehicle?’ I said, ‘No, I don’t mind.’ I certainly didn’t feel I was doing anything wrong. It was my money.”

That’s when Officer Larry Bates confiscated the cash based on his suspicion that it was drug money.

“Why didn’t you arrest him?” we asked Bates.

“Because he hadn’t committed a criminal law,” the officer answered.

Bates said the amount of money and the way it was packed gave him reason to be suspicious.

“The safest place to put your money if it’s legitimate is in a bank account,” he explained. “He stated he had two. I would put it in a bank account. It draws interest and it’s safer.”

“But it’s not illegal to carry cash,” we noted.

“No, it’s not illegal to carry cash,” Bates said. “Again, it’s what the cash is being used for to facilitate or what it is being utilized for.”

NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted, “But you had no proof that money was being used for drug trafficking, correct? No proof?”

“And he couldn’t prove it was legitimate,” Bates insisted.

Bates is part of a system that, NewsChannel 5 Investigates has discovered, gives Tennessee police agencies the incentive to take cash off of out-of-state drivers. If they don’t come back to fight for their money, the agency gets to keep it all.

“This is a taking without due process,” said Union City attorney John Miles.

A former Texas prosecutor and chairman of the Obion County Tea Party, Miles has seen similar cases in his area.

He said that, while police are required to get a judge to sign off on a seizure within five days, state law says that hearing “shall be ex parte” — meaning only the officer’s side can be heard.

That’s why George Reby was never told that there was a hearing on his case.

“It wouldn’t have mattered because the judge would have said, ‘This says it shall be ex parte. Sit down and shut up. I’m not to hear from you — by statute,” Miles added.

George Reby said that he told Monterey officers that “I had active bids on EBay, that I was trying to buy a vehicle. They just didn’t want to hear it.”

In fact, Reby had proof on his computer.

But the Monterey officer drew up a damning affidavit, citing his own training that “common people do not carry this much U.S. currency.”
Read Officer Bates’ affidavit

“On the street, a thousand-dollar bundle could approximately buy two ounces of cocaine,” Bates told NewsChannel 5 Investigates.

“Or the money could have been used to buy a car,” we observed.

“It’s possible,” he admitted.

NewsChannel 5 Investigates asked Bates if Reby had told him that he was trying to buy a car?

“He did,” the officer acknowledged.

“But you did not include that in your report,” we noted.

“If it’s not in there, I didn’t put it in there.”

So why did he leave that out?

“I don’t know,” the officer said.

Bates also told the judge the money was hidden inside “a tool bag underneath trash to [deter] law enforcement from locating it.”

“That’s inaccurate,” Reby said. “I pulled out the bag and gave it to him.”

And even though there was no proof that Reby was involved in anything illegal, Bates’ affidavit portrays him as a man with a criminal history that included an arrest for possession of cocaine.

That was 20-some years ago,” the New Jersey man insisted.

“Were you convicted?” we wanted to know.

“No, I wasn’t convicted,” he answered.

But Officer Bates says that arrest — which he acknowledged was old — was still part of the calculation to take Reby’s money.

“Am I going to use it? Yes, I’m going to use it because he’s been charged with it in the past — regardless of whether it’s 10 or 15 years ago,” he said.

Attorney John Miles said he’s frustrated with attitudes toward Tennessee’s civil forfeiture laws, which make such practices legal.

“We are entitled not to be deprived of our property without due process of law, both under the Tennessee Constitution and the federal Constitution — and nobody cares,” Miles said.

“Nobody cares.”

This year, state lawmakers debated a bill to create a special committee to investigate these “policing for profit” issues. That bill died in the last days of the legislative session.

After Reby filed an appeal, and after NewsChannel 5 began investigating, the state agreed to return his money — if he’d sign a statement waiving his constitutional rights and promising not to sue.

They also made him come all the way from New Jersey, back to Monterey to pick up a check.

He got the check, but no apology.

“If they lied about everything in the report, why would they apologize?” Reby said.

And, with that, he was ready to put Tennessee in his rearview mirror.

“I really don’t want to come back here,” he said.

As for the appeals process, Reby was able to provide us and the state with letters from his employers, showing that he had a legitimate source of income.

It took him four months to get his money back, but it usually takes a lot longer for most people.

And that, Miles said, works to the benefit of the police.

He had two clients where police agreed to drop the cases in exchange for a cut of the money — $1,000 in one case, $2,000 in another. In both cases, that was less than what they might have paid in attorney fees.

Miles called that “extortion.”
Reminds me of Boss Hogg - Hazzard County
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

[zeugma]

Ohlson says he has heard of several other similar cases, where people had their money seized even though they were not charged with a crime. So far, only one known lawsuit has been filed.

actually there's quite a bit of case law on this. the bottom line is that the u.s. government and all of its many various subdivisions are nothing but criminal enterprises masquerading as a republican form of government.

[Sherman Logan]

Yup.

I love it when decades-old policies are used as proof of new aggression by Obama and his peeps against Americans. Don’t confuse them with the facts!

[zeugma]

True, but an authority overreach that needs to be slapped down, doesn't justify killing an entire program.

It does when this "authority overreach" is endemic, and has corrupted every level of our government.

Every time you read of asset forfeiture, be sure to thank a drug warrior!

[Sherman Logan]

No crime was committed, therefore, the money was not theirs to take.

We don't know the money was not acquired illegally, so we don't know no crime was committed.

We do, however, know the police have produced no evidence of a crime, and that's the relevant point.

BTW, I've heard of this policy being used to confiscate multi-million dollar yachts because a guest or crew member, unknown to the captain and owner, had a small amount of drugs on them.

[Navy Patriot]

...they just think you are thinking bad thoughts and they seize your bank accounts and property ... just like their big brothers at the IRS.

You're closer to the future than you think.

Fast track toll transponders for autos linked to your bank account now track you everywhere and pay tolls for toll bridges, roads, and lanes. Facial recognition and surveillance cameras will ding you for loitering, jaywalking, smoking, littering and a host of other "crimes", and when your bank account runs dry, the warrant will be issued automatically. 1984 will be paradise in comparison.

[Windflier]

These violations of the Constitution have to stop,and it’s up to the courts to stop them hard. Which would work it the judges and the court system weren’t corrupt too.

So.....who's left to stop the government and their paid enforcers from violating our God given rights?

Josie The Outlaw: When Resistance Becomes Duty

[Bizhvywt]

“A Monterey police officer wanted to know if he was carrying any large amounts of cash.”

Sounds like the officer was soliciting a bribe. Good enough reason to never answer that question.

[Mack the knife]

“A Monterey police officer wanted to know if he was carrying any large amounts of cash.”

---

Watch the YouTube videos on traffic stops again.

If you have a voice recorder on your phone, turn it on.

As soon as you get your ticket, ask the officer if you are free to go, and keep asking. If the officer says yes, leave. If the officer says no, ask if you are under arrest; when he says no, ask if you are free to go. If he says you are being detained, ask for what crime and what is his probable cause for holding you.

Never consent to a search.

If the officer asks you to step out of the car ... do so, and lock it. When the officer asks why you locked it, tell them “to make it clear that I do not give you permission to search my car.”