[rlmorel]

I am a long-time Pats fan. It was clear to me the better team won yesterday. I will not address some of the classless and juvenile posts on this thread that don't have anything to do with this play. For the record, I don't think Belichick should have said anything, but that is his prerogative. If you want to discuss this play, the facts, and football, please read on and respond if you wish to. If you can, addressing the play and the facts.

This post is about the hit by Welker on Talib, and to a lesser degree, about the people comparing the two hits in question. Anyone who compares those two plays (Edelman-Cromartie) and (Welker-Talib) is only one of two things: misinformed/wrong, deliberately ignorant/wrong.

And there are PLENTY of you on this thread who are wrong on this. This is not an attack on you personally, so don't take it that way.

It should have been a penalty on Welker, but I am fine with people who say it was a close call and could have been missed. Given that there is an official looking DIRECTLY at all three players in question, it is more a statement of a case of poor officiating than being too close to call. As you can see from the picture below, it isn't even close. Lots of people saying it is a clean block...well, it isn't. You can make the case that Welker just mis-timed his hit and didn't mean to make a dirty hit. I am fine with that. I like Wes and doubt he would deliberately try to hurt another player. But plenty of good quality players have made what might be classified as "dirty" hits by accident, and I am sympathetic to that. It happens in the heat of things, and people who understand the sport know that. Wes Welker doesn't have a history of that, so I take that approach here. I won't call Welker dirty, because I don't think he is.

But if anyone continues to INSIST that it was a clean block by Welker, they are only one of two things: misinformed/wrong, deliberately ignorant/wrong. If you disagree, please feel free to tell me in factual terms why. I will listen.

Here is a shot of the play in question:

In the image above, the ball is still several feet from the receiver, and Welker is already in FULL contact with Talib. Note the official who has a bird's-eye view of the play. Granted, he is at least 20-25 yards away, but his view is unobstructed and his field of view, even if he was completely focused on the receiver catching the ball, would have to have included Welker and Talib.

It is at worst case a bad non-call on a play by a hard-nosed player on a type of play that has been called dirty. I don't think it was dirty.

Just for the people who want to compare the hit (that should have been a penalty on Welker) including the dummy on the broadcast who made the same comparison, here is a screen shot of the play by Edelman to actually BLOCK Rogers-Cromartie, and is not only a CLEAN play, but is an excellent play:

One can see Collie has the ball and is moving fast upfield, and Edelman and Rogers-Cromartie are about 10-15 yards apart.

I am fine with many of you who have a passionate dislike of the Patriots in general, and Bill Belichick in particular. That is your opinion and you can sound of all you want. But I would like some of you who insist it was a "clean block" by Welker, or who maintain it was no different from the clean block that Edelman placed on Rogers-Cromartie to read this and let me know what you think of the two plays in this light. I really am interested.

[xzins]

Welker himself said it was unintentional. He said he was attempting to go under Aqib, and he figures Aqib was trying to do the same thing. Standard crossing route between 2 receivers that had them cross in such a way to pick the defender. Ideally in a pick, you just disrupt the defender’s route a step or 2 which is a world of difference even in college ball.

Now, if Welker himself says he was running an under route and not a block, then that is something to discuss.

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[kabar]

Belichick mentioned that Welker made no attempt to run a pass route. It is not your usual rub route. If Welker is blocking more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage while the ball in is the air, it is a penalty. The refs missed it.

The real question is whether Welker intentionally tried to injure Talib. The league office can make such a determination. I doubt that it will.

[Dr. Sivana]

Speaking for myself, I actually had no opinion on the play, as the rules and their interpretation changes constantly. I don’t read the updated rulebooks, and I can’t judge the attitude on the field.

In fact, that is what I hate about today’s NFL. Too many penalties based on intent (flagrant versus non flagrant facemask, roughing the kicker, etc.). Worst of all is the idea that there might (or might not be) two different sets of rules for regular season and playoffs.

As a Ram fan, I was non-plussed by the repeated holding non-calls performed against Rams receivers, more so than by the practice videotaping in the Rams-Pats Super Bowl.

I suppose that if the NFL or the refs warn the teams that the game is going to be called “loose”, that both teams are obliged to adjust as best they can to the new scenario, just as a warm-weather/dome team would have to adjust to New Jersey in February. Still, I’d like the football played in February to be played by the same rules as the football in October (minus the pink).

As I perceive that Pats have been net beneficiaries of the caprice of NFL rules and their enforcement, my first inclination was to treat this as a “What goes around comes around” moment.

Oh, and just to show that I am not in the tank for my favorite teams, this Dodger fan willingly admits that the Cincinnati Reds were robbed of a chance at the World Series in strike shortened 1981, when MLB went to a split season in the middle of the year, locking out the team with the best overall record for a chance at the pennant.

[PGR88]

Neither the Broncos head coach, nor any other sane person, would send their top receiver, who is 5’9” and 30 lbs lighter than Talib - AND who has had 2 recent concussions - to deliberately act as a hit man. It is just that simple.

Welker hit Taleb sideways, because he was watching the pass which was coming to his area, he was not watching Talib. He didn’t try to go low or high on Taleb and if you watch the reply, it is Taleb who gets his shoulder into Welker first.

Belichick’s accusation is just pure fantasy.

[Chode]

the ref might well of missed a pick, but... i do NOT see it as he intentionally tried to injure Talib and Welker definitely got knocked on his butt

[kjam22]

The good news... if it is in fact a blown call... and that’s very close either way..... the good news is the blown call didn’t impact the outcome of the game. It was a clean hit. It wasn’t at the head. It wasn’t at the knees. It was a clean shot in the waist. Had Talib done a better job in coverage then the play doesn’t even happen. Instead he was trailing the play by about 4 pr 5 yards. He got blocked. He got hurt. He’s not the only player who got hurt Sunday. Is what it is.

[12th_Monkey]

I know yesterday was a day of very bad calls, not sure if this one is or not.

Better team won, however I don’t think either will beat Seahawks.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

Wow. thanks for posting that pic. Like I said, i didn’t see the ‘similar edelman hit on the previous drive’. The short video posted earlier led me to believe that he had just caught the ball. This picture...wow...and folks are comparing the hits. I suppose ‘hate-riots’ glasses help, but those 2 are nothing alike.

[detective]

Even if the incomplete pass hit the receivers hand a fraction of a second after initial contact refs will not call it. It may technically be a penalty but it is almost never called. There is this kind of contact all the time on crossing routes over the middle. If they called it every single time games would last about 6 hours.

The rub or pick or block did not effect the play. The receiver was open but he dropped the ball. It was an incomplete pass.

Wes Welker had just suffered two concussions. The Broncos are not going to send him to hit DB's. Welker turned his head towards the QB, it looked like he was looking for the ball even though it was already out. Welker was not going after Tahib, it was a clean play.

I like the Patriots. I saw Tom Brady at U of M and liked him then. He is one of my favorite players. I think Belichik and the Patriots have had an unexplainable attitude towards receivers. They forced Deion Branch out and he helped Saeattle to the super bowl. They treated Wes Welker poorly and forced him to Denver. I think Belichiks statement was more about his feelings towards Welker than his belief that it was a dirty play.

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Like I said, it was a clean block, but it was a pick.

[SomeCallMeTim]

This is a TIMING play.

If the receiver has touched the ball? Then Welker’s hit is a CLEAN block.

If Welker hits BEFORE the intended WR touches the ball.. it’s Offensive interference.

When I watched it, real time.... My GUT told me, the hit was too early. When, I watch the replays... I felt the same thing. BUT, the timing was SO CLOSE, I don’t think anyone could say it’s not within the range of “official discretion”. It’s really.. VERY close, in real time.

I don’t think there was ANY intent to injure. Welker did NOT go for the legs. He laid a shoulder block, into the mid-section. Clean play...

Yea..It COULD have been called as Pass Interference.. and, I wouldn’t bitch about it. As it was? a Non-call.. that, I also have NO problem with.

Given Belichick’s ABUSE of the rules in the past? I have ZERO sympathy for him, or the Pats.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

Good post at #106.

[kidd]

I stand corrected. Was this a challengable play?

Zapruder would admire your work.

[dmz]

I’d think more of your analysis if you posted a pic showing the receiver, talib and welker in the same frame. Is it just my ipad? The pic you posted as evidence doesnt show welker and talib, just the receiver and the ref.

[ßuddaßudd]

Good reply , , , but dont forget, it is just a game for your entertainment.