i head ya...
Posted on 01/20/2014 6:53:19 AM PST by rawhide
For the second-straight season, the loss of Aqib Talib during the AFC title game affected the way the Patriots defense played the rest of the game, and not coincidentally, New England, without its No. 1 cornerback, lost to the Ravens last year and to the Broncos on Sunday.
As soon as Talib, who collided with Wes Welker while trailing Demaryius Thomas on a crossing route, was injured and had to leave the game, Denver quarterback Peyton Manning begin targeting Welker and cornerback Devin McCourty.
On Monday, Belichick said in his postseason press conference that Welker -- Belichick's former player who contributed mightily to New England for many seasons, mind you -- deliberately hurt Talib.
"The way that play turned out, I went back and watched it, which I didn't have a chance to [Sunday]," Belichick said Monday morning, via ESPN Boston. "It was a deliberate play by the receiver to take out Aqib. No attempt to get open. I'll let the league handle the discipline on that play, whatever they decide. It's one of the worst plays I've seen."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbssports.com ...
Look, I don’t want to make it personal, and sorry if it came out that way that I was attacking you.
If you are not one of the folks who thinks that the two plays are similar (Welker/Talib and Edelman/Rogers-Cromartie) or that it is clear that hit by Welker was a “clean block”, then we don’t have to be in disagreement.
That’s all.
The rub or pick or block did not effect the play. The receiver was open but he dropped the ball. It was an incomplete pass.
Wes Welker had just suffered two concussions. The Broncos are not going to send him to hit DB's. Welker turned his head towards the QB, it looked like he was looking for the ball even though it was already out. Welker was not going after Tahib, it was a clean play.
I like the Patriots. I saw Tom Brady at U of M and liked him then. He is one of my favorite players. I think Belichik and the Patriots have had an unexplainable attitude towards receivers. They forced Deion Branch out and he helped Saeattle to the super bowl. They treated Wes Welker poorly and forced him to Denver. I think Belichiks statement was more about his feelings towards Welker than his belief that it was a dirty play.
I saw an illegal pick.
The evil empire goes down again and the emperor is sad. Boo hoo.
ROTFLMAO!
To be honest, I don’t really think the call or non-call was the issue for me, because it isn’t. The GAME certainly didn’t hinge on that call or non-call, though it is clear that the loss of Talib on that play made a huge difference in that game. (Anyone who says otherwise only has to look at how many times the rookie who replaced him was targeted after that, and to look at the result of those targets)
And it isn’t whining because I think the Patriots were robbed or something...I tried to make that as clear as possible in my post.
The Broncos were clearly a better team, they executed better, there is no argument there. I have been watching pro football avidly since 1971, and if there was ever an example of a team simply being overmatched with no answers, the Patriots in the game Sunday would be a case in point.
To me, I didn’t see any shame in the Patriots being beaten. First, it happens even when there isn’t adversity, and second, the Pats played up to their fullest potential with the players they had on hand. And it just wasn’t enough. But boy, did I enjoy watching them play this year.
But in the case of this thread, the reason I was compelled to post, is the multitude of people who were doing one of two things:
1.) Unequivocally stating that it was a clean “block” by Welker and claiming that any other point of view is simply sour grapes.
2.) Drawing an equivalence between the actual EXCELLENT block on Rogers-Cromartie by Edelman, and the actual against the rules (illegal) hit by Welker on Talib. (NOTE: I just want to be clear on this: the use of the word ILLEGAL does NOT equal “DIRTY”. It just means it was against the rules.)
In summary, I think the world of Wes Welker as a player, and I feel PRIVILEGED as a fan of the sport of football (as I THINK it should be played) to watch a tough-as-nails, hard-nosed player like him play for the team I follow for the years that he did.
All the other fans in the league only got to watch Welker play when the Patriots played THEIR team. I got to watch him every single game he played regardless of the opponent.
So, I DO NOT think it was an intentionally dirty hit or he is a dirty player. Far from it. I simply think things happen so fast on the field that even the best players occasionally are involved in a play that looks underhanded, even if it isn’t intentional. And I try to give players leeway on that.
It isn’t as if Welker has a history like Ndamukong Suh. I try to judge players on the body of their work, not an individual play. And Welker has shown his quality.
I hope I did make it clear that I did not see Welker going for a “Hit”.
I think his job on that play was to be the pick, and he was trying to fulfill his responsibility and mis-timed it.
The ball was in the air before he crossed paths and cut slightly downfield around his teammate and headed straight for Talib. He knew in advance he wasn’t going to catch it, it was going in the direction of his teammate whose path was 180 degrees opposite to his own.
Again, my point isn’t that it was a call or non-call, to me, it was irrelevant to the outcome of even that series, never mind the game.
The point I was making is, no matter how other Freepers want to view it, it was an ILLEGAL hit. Because it is ILLEGAL doesn’t make it dirty, just not legal.
That’s all.
As for their attitude towards receivers, this is nothing new. They simply don’t value them the way other teams do, in both a good way and a bad way.
All teams have positions they somehow seem to specialize at year after year after year. Some teams always have good linebackers. Some always have good tight ends. Some have great running backs, and so on.
The Patriots, as long as I have watched them, have not developed receivers well, and when they do, they aren’t prepared to pay them what other teams are. I think it is that simple. Dion went after the money, that’s all. I hated to see him go, but I can’t fault him there. And I loved it when he came back, he was a lot of fun to watch.
I know what you mean, but with all three of those players in that tight vicinity, from where the ref was at, he couldn’t have helped see the collision even though he knew the ball wasn’t there.
I think he simply had tunnel vision on the ball. And I am not bothered he didn’t call it. It was an incomplete pass. Heck, I think the game was still 3-0 at that point, but I don’t think it would have made a difference even if the call had pushed the Broncos back a few yards.
They didn’t have problems converting on 3rd and 15 or worse.
i head ya...
I am a big fan of irony, but also a big fan of facts. Perhaps I missed something. Did Belichick accuse someone of cheating?
I would be interested in that quote, if you have it.
i I disagree. If Belichick’s player doesn’t get hurt on the play, he wouldn’t be crying about the next day. As for the timing of the hit, Edelman’s was cleaner than Welker’s but as for delivering a cheap shot (if that’s Belichick’s complaint), Edelman’s was worse because he’s clearly driving his shoulder up high on Rodgers-Cromartie while Welker’s was hitting the midsection which is where you’re supposed to hit the guy.
Plus a 5-8 receiver with two recent concussions is not the guy anyone would choose to take an opposing player out of the game.
He accused someone of breaking the rules, just like he broke the rules.
What rule did he accuse him of “cheating” on?
I knew what you meant!
Like I said, it was a clean block, but it was a pick.
If it was a “clean block” it would have occurred AFTER the receiver touched it or caught it, as Edelman’s block was. What Edelman did was a good example of a clean block.
What Welker did was contrary to the rules, which have already been clearly stated.
There is a size difference between Welker and Aqib. If I was about to collide with a man that much bigger than me I think I would get as low as I could.
This is a TIMING play.
If the receiver has touched the ball? Then Welker’s hit is a CLEAN block.
If Welker hits BEFORE the intended WR touches the ball.. it’s Offensive interference.
When I watched it, real time.... My GUT told me, the hit was too early. When, I watch the replays... I felt the same thing. BUT, the timing was SO CLOSE, I don’t think anyone could say it’s not within the range of “official discretion”. It’s really.. VERY close, in real time.
I don’t think there was ANY intent to injure. Welker did NOT go for the legs. He laid a shoulder block, into the mid-section. Clean play...
Yea..It COULD have been called as Pass Interference.. and, I wouldn’t bitch about it. As it was? a Non-call.. that, I also have NO problem with.
Given Belichick’s ABUSE of the rules in the past? I have ZERO sympathy for him, or the Pats.
I agree. I don’t fault Welker for lining him up as he did. I don’t think it was dirty. And I am sure Welker didn’t mean to injure him, either.
If the receiver had caught the ball and then Welker hit him, we would be lauding it as an example of good downfield blocking. It was close enough that I think Welker just mis-timed it.
As I said, I have watched him play quite often, and it is something we have always loved about his play.
Belichick was off base on this, IMO.
New England has some good players in their secondary, but they still aren’t good enough not to have a player that serves as the anchor. If they have an anchor, they could be exceptional (with a little better pass rush) but without an anchor this year, they were average at best. They do have some very good young guys, but not good enough to stand on their own.
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