Belichick on Wes Welker: 'It was a deliberate play ... to take out Aqib'

CBS Sportsline ^ | 1-20-14 | By Josh Katzowitz | NFL Writer

[ssaftler]

Cannot understand why you dislike Manning.

Not my fav QB, but I sure do respect him.........

Hey, the two are not mutually exclusive. I can say the same about Derek Jeter, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and a few other great athletes who've put daggers into the hearts of teams I root for. Hate 'em all, but I respect their determination and drive.

[driftdiver]

Sure it was a block, it wasn’t an intent to injure

[RckyRaCoCo]

Simply looks like a crossing route, followed by a collision.

[Sir Napsalot]

For those arguing pick play or no pick play, that is assuming the rest of the commenters here didn't know the rules. And besides the point.

Belichick, in this case, was not saying it was a missed call by the officiating crew. [Even if it is a missed call, of which I don't believe it is, TALK TO THE HAND! It is not as if Patriots never ever benefited from past missed calls, yes, even in a championship game.]

He is accusing an opposing player deliberately take out one of his own. And said “.... one of the worst hits I've seen.” Really, Bill? You ought to study films more.

To make a ridiculous comment like that, it opened up Belichick to be ridiculed. And he deserves every bit of scorn piling up his way.

[SomeCallMeTim]

It was a hard hit and Aqib can’t take those.

You must be right. I'd be embarrassed if that little gnat, Welker took me out on a shot like that.

[rlmorel]

I am a long-time Pats fan. It was clear to me the better team won yesterday. I will not address some of the classless and juvenile posts on this thread that don't have anything to do with this play. For the record, I don't think Belichick should have said anything, but that is his prerogative. If you want to discuss this play, the facts, and football, please read on and respond if you wish to. If you can, addressing the play and the facts.

This post is about the hit by Welker on Talib, and to a lesser degree, about the people comparing the two hits in question. Anyone who compares those two plays (Edelman-Cromartie) and (Welker-Talib) is only one of two things: misinformed/wrong, deliberately ignorant/wrong.

And there are PLENTY of you on this thread who are wrong on this. This is not an attack on you personally, so don't take it that way.

It should have been a penalty on Welker, but I am fine with people who say it was a close call and could have been missed. Given that there is an official looking DIRECTLY at all three players in question, it is more a statement of a case of poor officiating than being too close to call. As you can see from the picture below, it isn't even close. Lots of people saying it is a clean block...well, it isn't. You can make the case that Welker just mis-timed his hit and didn't mean to make a dirty hit. I am fine with that. I like Wes and doubt he would deliberately try to hurt another player. But plenty of good quality players have made what might be classified as "dirty" hits by accident, and I am sympathetic to that. It happens in the heat of things, and people who understand the sport know that. Wes Welker doesn't have a history of that, so I take that approach here. I won't call Welker dirty, because I don't think he is.

But if anyone continues to INSIST that it was a clean block by Welker, they are only one of two things: misinformed/wrong, deliberately ignorant/wrong. If you disagree, please feel free to tell me in factual terms why. I will listen.

Here is a shot of the play in question:

In the image above, the ball is still several feet from the receiver, and Welker is already in FULL contact with Talib. Note the official who has a bird's-eye view of the play. Granted, he is at least 20-25 yards away, but his view is unobstructed and his field of view, even if he was completely focused on the receiver catching the ball, would have to have included Welker and Talib.

It is at worst case a bad non-call on a play by a hard-nosed player on a type of play that has been called dirty. I don't think it was dirty.

Just for the people who want to compare the hit (that should have been a penalty on Welker) including the dummy on the broadcast who made the same comparison, here is a screen shot of the play by Edelman to actually BLOCK Rogers-Cromartie, and is not only a CLEAN play, but is an excellent play:

One can see Collie has the ball and is moving fast upfield, and Edelman and Rogers-Cromartie are about 10-15 yards apart.

I am fine with many of you who have a passionate dislike of the Patriots in general, and Bill Belichick in particular. That is your opinion and you can sound of all you want. But I would like some of you who insist it was a "clean block" by Welker, or who maintain it was no different from the clean block that Edelman placed on Rogers-Cromartie to read this and let me know what you think of the two plays in this light. I really am interested.

[xzins]

Welker himself said it was unintentional. He said he was attempting to go under Aqib, and he figures Aqib was trying to do the same thing. Standard crossing route between 2 receivers that had them cross in such a way to pick the defender. Ideally in a pick, you just disrupt the defender’s route a step or 2 which is a world of difference even in college ball.

Now, if Welker himself says he was running an under route and not a block, then that is something to discuss.

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[kabar]

Belichick mentioned that Welker made no attempt to run a pass route. It is not your usual rub route. If Welker is blocking more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage while the ball in is the air, it is a penalty. The refs missed it.

The real question is whether Welker intentionally tried to injure Talib. The league office can make such a determination. I doubt that it will.

[rlmorel]

As I said, I don’t think it was an intentionally dirty hit by Welker.

Just two points: First, he saw the ball on the way (he never looked for it again) and secondly, he ran AROUND his own guy.

[rlmorel]

I don’t think Welker tried to injure him. I think Welker is a great player, and was sad to see him leave. But that is sports nowadays.

[Dr. Sivana]

Speaking for myself, I actually had no opinion on the play, as the rules and their interpretation changes constantly. I don’t read the updated rulebooks, and I can’t judge the attitude on the field.

In fact, that is what I hate about today’s NFL. Too many penalties based on intent (flagrant versus non flagrant facemask, roughing the kicker, etc.). Worst of all is the idea that there might (or might not be) two different sets of rules for regular season and playoffs.

As a Ram fan, I was non-plussed by the repeated holding non-calls performed against Rams receivers, more so than by the practice videotaping in the Rams-Pats Super Bowl.

I suppose that if the NFL or the refs warn the teams that the game is going to be called “loose”, that both teams are obliged to adjust as best they can to the new scenario, just as a warm-weather/dome team would have to adjust to New Jersey in February. Still, I’d like the football played in February to be played by the same rules as the football in October (minus the pink).

As I perceive that Pats have been net beneficiaries of the caprice of NFL rules and their enforcement, my first inclination was to treat this as a “What goes around comes around” moment.

Oh, and just to show that I am not in the tank for my favorite teams, this Dodger fan willingly admits that the Cincinnati Reds were robbed of a chance at the World Series in strike shortened 1981, when MLB went to a split season in the middle of the year, locking out the team with the best overall record for a chance at the pennant.

[PGR88]

Neither the Broncos head coach, nor any other sane person, would send their top receiver, who is 5’9” and 30 lbs lighter than Talib - AND who has had 2 recent concussions - to deliberately act as a hit man. It is just that simple.

Welker hit Taleb sideways, because he was watching the pass which was coming to his area, he was not watching Talib. He didn’t try to go low or high on Taleb and if you watch the reply, it is Taleb who gets his shoulder into Welker first.

Belichick’s accusation is just pure fantasy.

[Chode]

the ref might well of missed a pick, but... i do NOT see it as he intentionally tried to injure Talib and Welker definitely got knocked on his butt

[rlmorel]

I hear you, but I don’t care a lot about that. People have all kinds of “The refs favor the Patriots” things going on, and that has been going on for years for the Green Bay Packers, the Dolphins, the Steelers, the 49ers, etc.

That is just how a lot of fans are. In my younger crazy days, I was one of them.

The issue I have here is people in this thread taking a stance on something COMPLETELY and TOTALLY unsupported by the facts.

People hate the Patriots, I get that. They also hate the Miami Heat, the NY Yankees, the NY Giants, the Boston Red Sox and so on.

But some of the comments in here by people who willfully (actually, probably ignorantly since they didn’t even take a second look at the plays in question) use use emotion as fact to buttress a point.

[kjam22]

The good news... if it is in fact a blown call... and that’s very close either way..... the good news is the blown call didn’t impact the outcome of the game. It was a clean hit. It wasn’t at the head. It wasn’t at the knees. It was a clean shot in the waist. Had Talib done a better job in coverage then the play doesn’t even happen. Instead he was trailing the play by about 4 pr 5 yards. He got blocked. He got hurt. He’s not the only player who got hurt Sunday. Is what it is.

[rlmorel]

That is not my point, that Belichick is RIGHT in saying that. I specifically said that in my post, that I DON'T believe Belichick is right, and I also said he should not have even bothered to say it.

As for your analysis of the play, you are 100% wrong. Really. Please don't take this personally, but you must be looking at a different play.

Here is the play in question from a different angle:

The ball (NOT in the receiver's hands) is going in the OPPOSITE direction (to Manning's RIGHT) in the same direction the receiver was running in. Welker is a good 2-3 yards running full speed in the OPPOSITE direction. He already knew the ball was not for him, and he was lining up Talib.n He was lining up Talib before he even crossed the path of his own man and swerved downfield to avoid him.

Have you re-watched the play from a variety of angles as I have?

[kjam22]

Part of blocking is lining up on people. Picking someone or having an assignment to block someone. That is the way the game is played. It was a hard, clean, legal hit. It may have been a tenth or two of a second before the ball was caught. Its like get over it.

[rlmorel]

To say the non-call had no effect on the game is likely right, but...to say that play had no outcome on the game is flat out wrong.

Just wrong.

And it was NOT a clean hit, it should have been a penalty. That is CLEAR and cannot be refuted from the video record. You CANNOT hit a defender more than five yards down the field before the ball touches an offensive player.

You just cannot. You can say it was not an intentionally dirty play (which I don’t think it was either) but you CANNOT say it was a clean hit. If the ball has not reached the offensive target, and the defender can clearly see that and is making a line for the target and gets hit before the ball arrives, that is NOT a clean hit.

THAT is cut and dried, a penalty.

[rlmorel]

Can you hit a defensive player on a pass more than five yards downfield before the ball touches an offensive player, yes or no?