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To: kabar; FlJoePa; Uncle Chip; All
The NCAA went far beyond penalizing the program. They imposed an unprecedented, Soviet-style revisionist penalty on Penn State and Joe Paterno. The NCAA vacated 111 wins (from 1998 to 2011) from Paterno's record, meaning he would no longer hold the title of major college football's winningest coach. This is pure vindictiveness.

So, you're telling us, by virtue of your consistency, I suppose, that when the NCAA vacated ALL of these basketball wins, they were "vindictive" in those cases too?

"The incidents resulting in the largest number of vacated and/or forfeited games are as follows:"
* Michigan 113 regular season/tourney wins (1992-1999)
* Ohio State: 82 regular season/tourney wins vacated (1992-'02)
* Fresno State: 49 regular season wins vacated (1999-2001)
* St. John's: 46 regular season wins vacated (2001-2004)
* New Mexico State: 40 regular season/tourney wins (1992-94; 97-98)
* Memphis: 38 regular season/tourney wins wins vacated (2008)
* Florida Intl Univ: 32 regular season wins vacated (2003-06)
* Louisiana–Lafayette: 31 wins vacated (2004-05)
* California: 28 regular season wins forfeited (1995-96 season)
* Georgia Southern: 27 regular season wins vacated (2008-2009)
* Minnesota: 24 regular season wins forfeited (1977)
* Florida State: 22 regular season/NIT wins vacated
* USC: 21 regular season wins vacated (2008)
* Arizona: 19 regular season wins vacated (2008)
* Purdue: 19 regular season/tourney (1996)
Source: List of vacated and forfeited games in college basketball

And the Alabama football program had a textbook scandal (2005-2007) -- plus a 1993 scandal -- whereby it had to vacate 29 wins from those four seasons. "Vindictive" there, too, eh?

More "vindictiveness" versus...
...North Carolina football (16 wins over 08-09)?
...USC football (14 wins over '04-05)?
...Ohio State football (12 wins in 2010)?
...Florida State football (12 wins in '06-07)?
...Arkansas State football (10 wins in '05-06)?
...Michigan State football (5 wins in '95)?
...SMU football (5 wins in '98)?
Source: Here Are Your All-Time Vacated Standings For Division I College Football

So you're telling us that despite 22 Division I schools involving 25 football-basketball programs (Ohio State, USC & Alabama were dinged twice) having multiple wins vacated for seasons ranging from 1977 --> 2010...and this doesn't even include other sports programs also being held accountable...that Penn State ALONE suffered 'vindictiveness,' eh?

Given that...

...various Penn State officials/coaches/fans were probably nodding their heads in agreement each time these other 21 schools were 'hit up' with such vacated penalties...2/3rds involving multiple seasons, btw...

...this SOUNDS like mere whining to the rest of us

Of course, if you could just point out ONCE when any Penn State official, coach or fan complained about another school being held thusly accountable, I might soften my comment a bit

(other than that, not only thereby do you come across SOUNDING selectively hypocritical, but see my tagline)


85 posted on 01/11/2014 10:34:16 AM PST by Colofornian (Vindictiveness accusations--minus internal knowledge--constitutes mind reading/motive attribution)
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To: Colofornian

The penalties you cited had something to do with the program and its athletes. Give me one of the examples that you cited that involved a case like this one.


86 posted on 01/11/2014 11:00:31 AM PST by kabar
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To: Colofornian

You (and some others) should REALLY watch the live link I posted just above. Franco spoke and a crisis management expert is speaking now. Ziegler and many others to follow.

Maybe you’ll learn something.


87 posted on 01/11/2014 11:06:37 AM PST by FlJoePa ("Success without honor is an unseasoned dish; it will satisfy your hunger, but it won't taste good")
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To: Colofornian

...please, you don’t need to shout to make your points...


90 posted on 01/11/2014 11:22:24 AM PST by IrishBrigade
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To: All; kabar
Kabar:

That wikipedia list I provided doesn't include outright death penalties...like the 1985 Tulane 3-year basketball death penalty
College Basketball: The 25 sketchiest programs in hoops history

And that list also failed to include penalties based upon earlier scandals -- like...
...the 1952-1953 Kentucky basketball program being suspended...
Ranking the 10 Most Shocking Scandals in College Basketball History
...due to players participating in a points-shaving scandal...and Kentucky was only one of seven such schools in the early 1950s found participating in that...
See also: College Basketball: The 25 sketchiest programs in hoops history
...+ the Louisiana-Lafayette basketball program rec'd the death penalty in 1973:

1968 infractions In 1968, Southwestern Louisiana was placed on two years' probation and barred from postseason play during that time for recruiting violations and for student-athletes receiving financial assistance from an outside organization. 1973 death penalty In August 1973, Louisiana-Lafayette—then known as Southwestern Louisiana—became only the second school to receive the so-called "death penalty" from the NCAA. The basketball team was found guilty of over 120 violations. Most of them involved small cash payments to players, letting players borrow coaches' and boosters' cars, letting players use university credit cards to buy gas and buying clothes and other objects for players. However, the most severe violations involved massive academic fraud. In the most egregious case, an assistant coach altered a recruit's high school transcript and forged the principal's signature.

The penalties you cited had something to do with the program and its athletes. Give me one of the examples that you cited that involved a case like this one.
Source: Louisiana–Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns men's basketball

The 1961 St. Joseph's basketball team vacated wins...College Basketball: The 25 sketchiest programs in hoops history (points shaving)

...as did the 1971 Vanderbilt basketball team: College Basketball: The 25 sketchiest programs in hoops history

95 posted on 01/11/2014 12:32:44 PM PST by Colofornian (Vindictiveness accusations--minus internal knowledge--constitutes mind reading/motive attribution)
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