Posted on 10/21/2013 4:45:19 PM PDT by Colofornian
The long-running game show Jeopardy featured an entire category on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints last night. The category was popular as it was the first one chosen in the round. The answers in the category included missionaries, the Tabernacle, Marion Romney, Joseph Smith and Deseret Industries. Every contestant who was asked a question got it right.
Sure people in the LDS Church honor, respect and love Joseph Smith. I certainly regard him as a prophet called of God.
But to say that Latter-day Saints place him or anyone else above Jesus Christ is simply untrue. Christ is our only Savior, and without him we have nothing.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Brigham Young
You continue to dismiss and/or ignore the quotes from Mormon leaders: why??
Read the quotes Norm. Who are they talking about? C’mon.
The ‘honor, respect and love’ is in reality worship and they put Smith, in reality, over Christ.
Examples and stories by other exmormons about Smith worship. Let people decide for themselves.
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_josephsmithworship.html
Come on! ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet... When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, pp. 408-409
From Brigham Young:
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them - something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them - namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation - the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim - “Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true. Journal of Discourses 7:289 (Oct 9, 1859)
“...and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 312).
I can keep going...this goes beyond honor, you will never see Christians speak of their founders this way or sing praises to them or have nativities of them at Christmastime.
You can find any quotes you like, but the simple fact remains that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts Jesus Christ only as our Savior.
That’s a plain fact and all I’m trying to make clear here.
Sorry; but the QUOTES from MORMON leaders leave quite a different impression on lurkers.
You produce NO evidence to back up what you so want to be true.
Deconstructing Linus: Portrait of a True Believing Pumpkinist as a Young Man "Each year on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of the pumpkin patch that he thinks is the most sincere and flies through the air with his pack of toys for all the good little children in the world." No. This is about sincerity, a subjective standard by any definition. |
I wonder if Linus blames himself every year for not picking the most sincere pumpkin patch for his vigil?
I wonder if other Great Pumpkinists castigate Linus by asserting if he were more in tune with the Spirit of the Great Pumpkin, if he were more prayerful, if he read the Holy Writ of the Great Pumpkin with a greater sincerity, that he could indeed rise to the challenge and, via the Spirit, be lead to choose the most sincere pumpkin patch?
I wonder how many years Linus will feel guilty for this failure and blame himself for receiving no answer no matter how sincere he believes himself to be?
I wonder if Linus ever gets frustrated because there is no objective way to measure sincerity? And if he realizes there is no objective standard for such a thing, I wonder if it ever creeps into his mind that his annual mission is nothing more than mindless busywork?
I wonder, does Linus ever has doubts?
For the time being, however, Linus will put aside his doubts and, perhaps as a means of proving his sincerity, begins to proselyte among his friends for converts. Most shrug him off. But Sally, who has a crush on him, believes Linus and agrees to spend Halloween in Linus Pumpkin Patch.
Linus then explains that by using positive language and positive thinking, they may be able to attract the Great Pumpkin to their Patch. He also cautions Sally that negative language and negative thinking will cause the Great Pumpkin to pass them by.
There is no room for doubt when one is a Great Pumpkinist. One should never say if the Great Pumpkin comes but always when the Great Pumpkin comes. "One little slip like that, can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by!" Its hard to imagine a benevolent icon such as the Great Pumpkin punishing TBPs (True Believing Pumkinists) for such a minor infraction, but there you have it.
Sally: The Birth of an Ex-Pumpkinist
Because Sally loves her sweet baboo Linus, she sets aside her own Halloween plans of trick-or-treating and a Halloween party in order to spend the evening in the Pumpkin Patch. She converts to Great Pumpkinism because she loves Linus. She respects his opinion. And she wants to make him happy and be supportive. And besides, if its really true, WOW! Wouldnt that be fantastic?
But in the end, the only Being that shows up in the Pumpkin Patch is Snoopy. Linus, believing Snoopy to be the Great Pumpkin, swoons into an ecstatic faint, happy in the knowledge that he has finally deciphered the Great Pumpkins standard for sincerity. But, alas, it is a misplaced hope, and when Linus regains consciousness, there is not only no Great Pumpkin there to reward him, there is one upset little girl.
"I was robbed! I spent the whole night waiting for the Great Pumpkin when I could have been out for tricks or treats! Halloween is over and I missed it! You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin and all that came was a beagle!"
"I didn't get a chance to go out for tricks or treats! And it was all your fault! I'll sue! What a fool I was. And I could have had candy apples and gum! And cookies and money and all sorts of things! But no, I had to listen to you! You blockhead. What a fool I was. Trick or treats come only once a year. And I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead. You owe me restitution!"
Luckily for Sally, she only missed one Halloween. And though she is demanding restitution, because her participation was voluntary, she will never receive said restitution. Shell simply have to accept the experience as one of lifes absurdities and move on.
However, one can hope that this experience has made Sally a more skeptical person, so that the next time she is presented with such fantastic claims, shell perhaps be inclined to do her research before committing any time, money or emotion.
After all, fantastic claims should be supported by fantastic evidence, right?
The question now becomes, has this experience made Linus a skeptic? After yet again not having his Pumpkin Patch recognized as sincere and after having endangered his friendship with Sally, will he continue to believe?
In spite of a complete and utter lack of evidence pointing to the existence of the Great Pumpkin, and a complete and utter lack of the Great Pumpkins Promise ever having been fulfilled, Linus is a True Believing Pumpkinist to the core. To even admit the possibility that he may be wrong would be to negate all those years of hard work and sincere belief. Linus simply cannot turn his back on his belief.
So if Linus doesn't become an ex-Pumpkinist, what is his strategy? Well, hes going to keep on trying, isn't he?
"What do you mean, 'stupid'? Just wait until next year. I'll find a pumpkin patch, and I'll sit in that pumpkin patch and it'll be a sincere pumpkin patch, and the Great Pumpkin will come! Just you wait and see! I'll sit in that pumpkin patch, and I'll see the Great Pumpkin. Just wait until next year!"
The evidence is plain to anyone who looks objectively, Elsie.
You can start here: http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/
//You can find any quotes you like, but the simple fact remains that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts Jesus Christ only as our Savior.//
Your statements are contradicted the facts that several have called Smith a savior and that we are saviors through proxy work for the dead. That is the fact. They call others than Christ Savior. Deal with it.
Also, I said worship, not just calling Smith savior.
You are spouting the party line, but the facts contradict you.
And, for the lurkers, Norm never ever answered the question about thow those quotes were about (they were all in reference to Joseph Smith, not Jesus) showing clearly how Mormons worship Joseph Smith.
All of these are about JOSEPH SMITH, not Jesus Christ.
His teachings “are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him].”
“I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;...”
“I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness.”
“He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above.”
“The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him.”
“I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him.”
“He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come.”
“Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him].”
“Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth.”
He was “a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.”
“Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth.”
“How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas.”
“...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed.”
“The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end.”
The “work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him].”
now tell me again, how LDS worship Jesus (which they don’t btw they only claim worship God the father in the NAME of Christ - not the same thing) and not Smith?
Hi Reaganaut,
I realize that in doing proxy work for the dead people have been referred to as saviors. ‘Saviors on Mount Zion’ is the phrase that is often used, and that phrase comes from Obadiah 1:21 which reads, “And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.”
These ‘saviours’ are obviously not referring to Jesus Christ — Obadiah says they come from the house of Jacob.
Again, my point is that Latter-day Saints do not place anyone other then Jesus Christ in the position of Savior of the souls of men and women.
Very simply, we teach and believe that there would be no salvation without Jesus Christ.
Can we have celestial glory without the LDS church? If not that means Joseph Smith trumps Christ and Christ died and resurrected in vain.
The LDS DO in fact place their own worthiness (required) and works and Joseph Smith over Jesus Christ.
Salvation is through Christ who has established His church administer the principles and ordinances of salvation. In New Testament times he founded His church and called the Apostles to administer the gospel of salvation.
Latter-day Saints believe that in our day Joseph Smith was called by Jesus Christ as prophet to restore His church to the earth and by him revealed the principles of salvation.
We believe that only through Christ can sins be forgiven, and death can be conquered.
No thanks; YOU can pick out the piece that you think make your case, as I’d probably miss it.
You avoid discussing what HAS been taught and believed: Why?
Oh?
WHAT 'principles'?
Oh?
Were they 'revealed' in the BoM?
I'd like to see where.
I know what is believed and taught,and it centers in Christ. He is who I put my faith in.
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