Posted on 05/24/2013 6:35:28 PM PDT by Kevmo
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas
Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments
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Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.
The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.
As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.
This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.
As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.
If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.
Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time
Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”
Your an idiot!
Well, then, the 6 other scientists couldn’t measure heat nor power, is that it? They must be pretty cavalier with their reputations to back up someone like Rossi who has such a terrible reputation.
Like I already said, an experienced engineering firm with a reputation to protect would have been more qualified and convincing. Rossi’s academics don’t have much to protect from what I can find.
Potential being the operative word, there. Personally, I'm willing to be convinced, and am not inclined to dismiss this technology out of hand, simply because it seems too good to be true.
My position is, it's either going to work, or it's not. I see no need to get bent out of shape about the possibility that someone might be pulling an elaborate hoax. Time will tell on that. They're either going to eventually deliver the goods, or they're not.
Thing is, there's enough interest in this, and enough informed opinions and observations thus far, that it's enabled me to keep my mind open to the possibility that it could indeed come to fruition. If it does, we really will have an opportunity to completely change the societal control dynamics of the planet. That is, if TPTB don't stop it first.
And like I said
the 6 other scientists couldn’t measure heat nor power, is that it? They must be pretty cavalier with their reputations to back up someone like Rossi who has such a terrible reputation.
But the real point is towards the lurkers and rational skeptics. You can push for perfection in a demo all you want, you aint gonna find it. Especially when you yourself agree that the patent office shouldn’t be issuing patents in cold fusion. Under those conditions, an engineer with a breakthrough which cannot be protected by patent would appear as bizarre as... Rossi appears. And hyperskeptical people like you would find fault in every movement he makes.
My position is, it’s either going to work, or it’s not. I see no need to get bent out of shape about the possibility that someone might be pulling an elaborate hoax. Time will tell on that. They’re either going to eventually deliver the goods, or they’re not.
***Sounds about right. What would be your position/viewpoint of why the mods are pulling such threads? After all, this is potentially the most significant development in recent technological history, up to and including gunpowder.
Why wouldn't the whole world beat a path to Italy? Rossi has a device that will produce many times the amount of energy input! A thimble sized pellet of cheap but secret ingredients will produce sustained temperatures of 1800 to 2000 degrees F.
The herd of government, military, industrial and academic leaders hailing Rossi should be going on right this moment since we now this world saving technology verified by no less than seven top scientists. I'm planning a thread when that happens.
There is a certain mindset in humans to beware of something that is too good to be true. It is so strong in some that they will just plain deny the obvious or refuse to even look.
Nearly free energy means desalination becomes widely used. The deserts bloom and there is no reason for hunger.
Oil is not needed for fuel.
Resource driven wars become a thing of the past.
We will finally have the capability to travel deeper into space.
The human race just won the lottery, and some people feel like it must be a fake ticket.
You might be interested to hear that developers of this technology are taking exactly that tack, and simply bypassing the mainstream scientific community. In fact, there are companies large and small, around the world, rushing to be the first to get a device to market.
There really isn't much point in proving the science to anyone but investors. Do a little digging, and you'll quickly discover that a lot of well known companies are quietly racing to get on base with this before the whole world catches on.
Dunno, friend. I haven't been following the LENR threads for a while now. I have no idea whether some were pulled because they got too raucous, or what.
The one time I had a thread pulled, the mod explained their reasoning to me. You ought to ask.
I have no idea whether some were pulled because they got too raucous, or what.
***FR used to have huge flamewars over political topics. I don’t understand why suddenly scientific topics are pulled because they’re “too raucous”. You’re probably right, the singular comments when the mod pulls the thread are things like “too much” or “enough” or “flamewars”. It begs the question why some huge flamewars have been allowed to continue, but when a historical development as significant as this (even if it is Rossi being a con artist, the best in history) are not allowed to see it to the end, well, what the freep is going on at FR?
The one time I had a thread pulled, the mod explained their reasoning to me. You ought to ask.
***I have asked. Either no response or as terse as “flamewars”.
To be candid, I think FR is organized around having a few mods. They’re overwhelmed. Just like what is mentioned in the bible, the Jethro solution:
17 Moses’ father-in-law replied, “What you are doing is not good. 18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone.
(read on for the solution, it involves delegating)
But what confidence can one muster when no one in authority is listening?
I can’t help but be reminded of the bible passage
1 Thessalonians 5:3
and
Revelation 17:5
knowing that the root word of Mystery is Knowledge (covered) and the root word of Babylon is Knowledge where the tower of Babyl was the Tower of Knowledge. The root word of Science is Knowledge, the root word of technology is Knowledge (uncovered).
Today’s international religion is Mystery, Babylon and it will grow rapidly when the technology/knowledge of LENR is brought to bear.
And to be quite frank, most of these skeptopaths who know little of the scientific method will be the leaders of this new international religion. Similar things happened when the critics of the Wright brothers were shown up.
bump for later
What a wonderful parody. The only thing that differs from it and reality is the word “top”. These are simply scientists willing to risk their reputations. Top scientists don’t do that, ever.
I have a couple of questions for you: can ordinary PhD scientists measure heat and power? When they get an unexpected 10x result, do you suppose they double check their results and check with each other?
Feel free to post your credentials up against theirs, by the way. Oh, I know, you won’t do that... typical response of the very average and mediocre skeptopath.
Sounds like you don’t trust the physics background of the 7 scientists involved. What exactly would be YOUR background to question these folks (and the Swedish Industrial Group ELFORSK)???
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg80825.html
Giuseppe Levi
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Bologna University
Bologna, Italy
Bio:
http://www.unibo.it/SitoWebDocente/default.htm?upn=giuseppe.levi%40unibo.it&TabControl1=TabCV
Website: http://www.giuseppelevi.it/
Publications: http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/47387224/g-leviand
http://www.unibo.it/Faculty/default.htm?TabControl1=TabPubs&upn=giuseppe.levi%40unibo.it
Evelyn Foschi “is in the product development department for medical
devices, University of Bologna. Her specialty is X-ray.” —
http://andrearossiecat.com/e-cat/members-of-the-3rd-party-report-commission
Publications: No.
Torbjörn Hartman
Senior Research Engineer
The Svedberg Laboratory (which specializes in proton therapy and is
attached to Uppsala University)
Uppsala, Sweden,
Publications:
http://www.journalogy.net/Author/53814223/torbjorn-hartman?query=Torbj%u00f6rn%20Hartman
Bo Höistad
Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy, Nuclear Physics
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications: http://www.journalogy.net/Author/51661212
Roland Pettersson
Senior Lecturer
Department of Chemistry - BMC, Analytical Chemistry
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/56841550/roland-pettersson
Lars Tegnér
Professor Emeritus
Department of Engineering Sciences, Division of Electricity
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications: Doctoral thesis -
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?searchId=2&pid=diva2:298914 -
otherwise apparently not published unless he is also P.-E. Tegnér in which
case he’s somehow connected to Stockholm University:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/13416120/p-e-tegner
Hanno Essen
Docent and Lecturer
Department of Mechanics of the KTH Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden
Publications:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/12981049/hanno-essen
Essen, Rossi’s site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the E-Cat.
Jed Rothwell Thu, 23 May 2013 15:52:40 -0700
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Essen, Rossi’s site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the E-Cat. Anyone got any citations?
He published some strong remarks, years ago. I expect you can find them easily with Google. He was the president of the Swedish Skeptics Society, so it is no surprise he had it in for Rossi, and for cold fusion in general.
I find it almost miraculous that anyone connected with a “Skeptics Society” can bring himself to say anything positive about cold fusion. Essen is not your typical capital-S Skeptic.
- Jed
19 posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 12:26:55 PM by Kevmo (”A person’s a person, no matter how small” ~Horton Hears a Who)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
To: All; y’all; et al
.
http://coldfusion3.com/blog/giuseppe-levi-goes-on-record-to-discuss-e-cat
Giuseppe Levi goes on Record to Discuss E-cat
August 25, 2011
A respected Italian physicist has gone on record to defend Sergio Focardi and Andrea Rossi’s e-cat. Giuseppe Levi, a professor at the University of Bologna and a colleague of Sergio Focardi sat down for a long video interview with Steven B Krivit of New Energy Times in June. The video was only made available at the New Energy Times website on August 14.
Levi spoke English and he is very easy to understand and entertaining. He gave some good points to Krivit who did not appear to talk much. Levi is an expert on nuclear physics, energy physics and sub nuclear physics who has worked on satellites and other projects in the past.
Levi’s main points were:
• He has worked with Focardi on other projects and respects him.
• Levi has been following Rossi and Focardi’s work for three years but only examined the e-cat itself on December 16, 2010. He did extensive testing of the e-cat and apparently believes Rossi’s claims.
• Levi is a member of the US group the Skeptic’s Society and he applied their “baloney detector kit.” (A set of parameters for the detection of fraud developed by the late Carl Sagan) to the e-cat and found it was not baloney.
• Levi said he investigated the e-cat because it is his duty as a scientist. He also wanted to protect the University of Bologna’s reputation from a possible fraud.
• Levi did admit that the e-cat was developed in what he called an “industrial” and not a research environment.
• The January e-cat news conference and demonstration by Rossi and Focardi was done in order to show the scientific community the validity of the e-cat and protect Focardi’s reputation.
• Levi seems to be concerned about Focardi’s reputation and is trying to protect it.
• Levi said other scientists including chemists have examined the e-cat and verified some of the results.
Levi also gave some interesting quotes in response to Krivit’s questions.
When asked why he investigated the e-cat, Levi said: “You must go and look by yourself. It is one of my duties I am a researcher I am paid by public money. Something very important was going on with the name of the University of Bologna. It was my duty to know if it was something real. If it is something real we must make research on it.”
When asked if the e-cat represents a new physics or not, Levi said: “There is not a new quantum mechanics but some new phenomenon.”
First of all, could you please post your list of 7 super-messianic scientists about 150 more times? Because every time you post the same listing (over and over) certainly doesn’t make you look like a loonie-bat or anything.
Secondly, and most importantly, just because these 7 scientists are your super-turbo-messianic scientists means nothing to me. There are literally thousands upon thousands of scientists in the world and these are the only 7 that want to be involved in something that is a for sure thing? Personally, I don’t care what kind of credentials your 7 superhero-scientists have, if it’s just them and 1000’s upon thousands of other scientists have nothing to do with what they’re doing (given it’s a for sure thing) that tells me something.
I’m sorry, if this a flame-posting but dang dude, you’ve posted your superhero-scientist roster like 4 or 5 times like the list itself is going to make everything true.
I’ve seen photos of odd things like that produced by tornadoes like a piece of wheat straw driven into a telephone pole. And from what little I know about it no one has been able to duplicate it.
The last couple of threads were pulled because of extended bickering, spamming ‘Do Not Post to ME!!!” and a poster was sending abuse notifications about posts saying they were personal attacks when they were only critiques against Rossi. That is not a personal attack, since Rossi is not a poster on the thread. And the mods have no desire or inclination to babysit such threads.
Cold fusion is not a caucus on the Religion Forum. It is open thread. It is also a controversial subject and will draw skeptics. You’ve gone from calling critics ‘seagulls’, which the mods requested that you stop, to calling them ‘luddites’, which quite frankly is even more insulting. Both terms invite flamewars, and if you want threads to stay up, I suggest you stop that approach.
We won’t stop you this time from using the term ‘luddite’. But if using that term raises the temperature of the thread excessively (pun intended), then we will pull the plug.
Capice?
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