Posted on 05/24/2013 6:35:28 PM PDT by Kevmo
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas
Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments
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Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.
The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.
As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.
This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.
As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.
If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.
Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time
Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”
As I said, chemistry is not my field.
***Then you’re just speculating.
Here we go again....
The readings as far as they go are not enough!
They are using a conversion formula based on those readings of the exterior temperature of a metal canister in room air.
They have only a rudimentary estimate based on what little they saw and measured. They were forced to use what I see as a inappropriate control to determine the heat output of the electric coils. This factor means a lot in the final results. The input power was very low but with a three phase supply and a modified wave form, I can tell you that it was intentionally done to reduce the input, not to make the test work. It is not something that is necessary so I have seen this before. In my business it’s called making the test conform to the results you want.
Time for bed..
The input power was very low but with a three phase supply and a modified wave form, I can tell you that it was intentionally done to reduce the input, not to make the test work.
***Horse manure. Asked & answered on this extensive thread at Vortex.
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
You are doing what we call in the investment business...”Pumping”.
You are pumping this story and have been for some time. I don’t need to know why because there are always variables, but in general it’s either for monetary gain, or emotional satisfaction.
That is why anyone not buying into it irritates you. I see it everyday in the markets...I am conditioned now after many mistakes to oppose it like a positive opposes a like charge. I try to push for answers and after a time when I get nothing but endlessly repeated phrases I know I am opposing a pumper and not a rational argument that can result in anything but repeated grief.
It’s kind funny, but pumpers usually call people like me “Bashers”. Because to them I am trying to tear down their dreams of getting rich in a single stock. But really all I am doing is trying to identify the motivation of the person I am talking to.
So either you have a interest or hope to have a interest in this device on the monetary side, or you are hopelessly wedded to the idea of cold fusion and this gives you a platform, but either way, I can’t hope to reason with you so I will retreat and leave you to your thread.
I try to push for answers and after a time when I get nothing but endlessly repeated phrases
***That is exactly what I get, and recently I started getting the treatment from you.
I tell you what. You ask one question. I answer it. I ask one question. You have to answer it. We keep going until someone breaks the chain.
what we call in the investment business
***You said you were an electrician.
Does not matter whats on that post...I know what I am talking about. There was no need for three phase power except to reduce the watts/per hour load reading. A single phase set up would have been more than sufficient but three phase on a resistive load is far more economical power wise.
If the voltage is European...it’s running at about 250VAC. Same power we use here in the US on our AC and Heating loads and we do this for economy over 120VAC...We take a second step to lower costs by installing a three phase service which reduces the load at the input by about one third.
So in the end, in the US, you can save from 55-66% by switching your high load devices to three phase but it’s expensive up front.
In the case of this lab, not sure where they got it from because their load is so small that nobody would suggest a three phase set up for it. It’s stupid to have to supply that kind of hardware for a load with less than 5KW. This load was less than 500 watts. That’s like 4 light bulbs.
So the three phase load is pointless! The waveform modification is pointless on a heating element!
Unless you are trying to shave every single bit of inefficiency from the test data to enhance it. Or that power is doing something else, but I am not going there.
There is enough secret sauces in this thing to win a cooking contest.
It’s that simple.
Retired......Now doing wallstreet.
In the case of this lab, not sure where they got it from because their load is so small that nobody would suggest a three phase set up for it. It’s stupid to have to supply that kind of hardware for a load with less than 5KW. This load was less than 500 watts. That’s like 4 light bulbs.
So the three phase load is pointless! The waveform modification is pointless on a heating element!
***Again, asked & answered on this extensive thread at Vortex.
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg81146.html
Whats going on is that I pose a question, you come back with the same tired phrases. basically saying all that has been settled so go pound sand....
Not trying to turn you into a critic, but you need to have some critical thinking to rationalize what they are trying to say about this device. If you don’t, you will be in lala land.
If the answer is not what I said....then it’s wrong...
I’ll tell you what we do use waveform modification on...would you like to know?
also this thread, among other places
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
The first test used 3-phase power, the second DID NOT.
The paper says:
“The E-Cat HT2’s power supply departs from that of the device used in December in that it is no longer three-phase, but single-phase: the TRIAC power supply has been replaced by a control circuit having three-phase power input and single-phase output, mounted within a box, the contents of which were not available for inspection, inasmuch as they are part of the industrial trade secret.”
then my proposal should be acceptable to you
Never mind....I’ll answer it anyway because your links you keep giving me don’t work so I don’t know if it was discussed.
The answer is, Inductive heating....not a wye hookup resistive coil load as described in the test papers.
Induction can use very little electricity and over time can heat to pretty high temperatures...in a controlled small space. But it would require a additional coil not shown or described in the test papers..and the current would need a way out, either through a wire or any conductor, even a metal support that loops back to the power source, preferably aluminum.
Then publish your findings and save the world from this supposed con artist. Vortex is a good place to start because they can give you the level of scrutiny your findings need. But you can start wherever you want. Best of luck with your project and eventual fame.
Yeah, I said exactly that is so many words and the input is still three phase. They installed the secret control box and they just say it modifies the wave form. But the output is not two wire as opposed to three. So that is single phase AC or could be pulsating DC depending on the wave modification. Pulsating DC is good for induction loads...among other things....TV oscillators.....amplifiers and other stuff...
Never mind....I’ll answer it anyway because your links you keep giving me don’t work so I don’t know if it was discussed.
***Cutting and pasting into the URL space is so inconvenient, I know.
Here’s another thread where the topic is discussed and your treatment is dismantled.
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Don’t need no fame......just peace and quiet.....gonna get that in another two years when I move to the woods...
I’m not saying this guy is a fraud. I don’t know him.
But what his people are doing or did with this test leads one to conclude that they are not being very forthcoming with their device and are doing the absolute minimum necessary to get someone to say they might have something interesting. Which is pretty much all they said...
The testing people should have been a bit more critical of the restrictions but they chose not to be. So I don’t read much into this test and as I said, I need a lot more now, just to stay interested..
Hope you here from this bunch again...You may not, but if you do I am sure you will post it.
Here’s another Vortex thread where the output for 2wire versus 3wire led to the secret wiring hypothesis, AFAIK
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
With so many threads to drill down on, you can see my reluctance to get into this material. But, you’re in luck, because you can sign up at Vortex and save the world from this supposed scammer as long as your explanations hold up. Best of luck.
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