Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas

Intrade Gateway via Extreme Tech ^ | May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Sebastian Anthony

[Kevmo]

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas

Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments

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Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.

The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.

As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.

This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.

As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.

If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.

Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time

Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”

[Kevmo]

Pictures are normally worth a thousand words, but in your case they are only worth bowlsheet.

time to take the advice of the admin mod and ignore you

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Kevmo]

Please forgive me. I did hold my breath. But I released it, and sure enough, you have not responded with the mathematical treatment which suffices.

[Moonman62]

Here's one way Rossi could have pulled off his latest con job.

Here is how Rossi has fooled the same bunch of academic physicists this time:

He has given them the thick insulated wires to measure with a “clamp ammeters.” This type of measurement uses magnetic field created by the current flowing trough a wire. The calculation of the current has an assumption of a single, non-wound and non-shielded wire. However, internal structure of the cables used in this setup were not exposed. It can be seen that they are thick enough to hide things like shielding, winding, or even ferrite rings that could completely distort the magnetic fields and so the validity of the measurement.

It looks like while focusing a lot on temperature measurement, they got fooled by simple electric measurement distortion. Cables are definitely thick enough to deliver several kW of power while actual measured current would be much less if magnetic field that is being measured is partly shielded. So while there was no mistake in heat calculation, the electric power measurements were completely uncertain and open to any manipulations Rossi might want to implement under the insulation of these thick cables that were passing an “unidentified waveform” of current.

Source

[Kevmo]

Baloney. If any lurker thinks there is something here and wants to follow up, they can ping me. So far, not a single lurker has ever done so.

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Moonman62]

Here's another way Rossi could have pulled off his latest con job.

Physicists could not legally wire the Rossi device to a 3 phase mains supply in most countries because they have little expertise and the results of the test come down to the reading of the power meter. That section should have been done by an electrical engineer because there are some glaring problems.

The power meter used only has a valid power factor range of 0.5-1.0 if you pull the manufacturer datasheet. The physicists never measure the power factor and from what I can see of the results it looks to be a triac firing horribly into an inductive load and is highly likely to be around 0.25 well outside the meters range.

The waveform also appear to be highly distorted which also defeats the power reading ability of the power meter. Legally you couldn’t not sell this device in most countries it requires and filters and active power factor correction to be able to be connected to the mains. The meter used in the test is the type that expects a complying device and it’s results are prefaced on the device meeting normal electrical compliance specifications.

Equipment designed for testing power with irregular and non compliant waveforms are much bigger and much more expensive than the meter used.

Concerning is that Mr. Rossi openly discusses the waveform as being important to the operation of the device he ties it to some LENR thing but more than likely it is important because it upsets the meter reading ability.

The bottom line here is there is no certainty what power exactly is being drawn from the 3 phase mains because the electrical testing was done by physicists not electrical engineers and since the result of the whole test revolves around what power was drawn from the mains it is not clear there is any excess power at all and it wasn’t simply drawn from the mains.

Source

[Kevmo]

time to start following the admin mod’s advice and ignore you

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Kevmo]

If any lurker has a legitimate reason to follow up on what you say, they can simply ping me.

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Kevmo]

Baloney. If any lurker thinks there is something here and wants to follow up, they can ping me. So far, not a single lurker has ever done so.

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Cold Heat]

That’s possible....

Most data loggers would simply install a CT on each phase, each with a separate recorder and combine the results.

From that they could get the correct power consumption from all three phases combined and the total is usually accurate. This is essentially how three phase power supplies are metered in the US. In single phase applications this ability is always built into the meters below 320 amperes. Above that or for 3 phase you have to go to a CT (current transformer) installation. Either way has similar accuracy for power consumption measurement.

Not knowing what exactly is in what I call “the secret sauce” is usually where any fraud occurs...Most all of these secretive inventions contain one or more secret aspects.

Electrical power, this day and age is hard to fiddle with, and not be exposed almost immediately....IMO

[Cold Heat]

Moonman....I see where you are going with this, but manipulating the “power factor” on a electrical distribution system would result in a higher measured power consumption, not less.

Bad power factors can usually be found where a lot of electronic power supplies are on the line as well as electric motors. From what I understand of this machine, it has pretty much of a resistive load. Usually needed to create heat. Resistive loads to do not generally result in any needed power factor correction.

If someone wanted to fake a electrical measurement, all they need do is de-tune the CT measuring device or in your example, the ammeter.

[Kevmo]

How do you detune it to the point that it generates 10,000 times the energy density of gasoline without 7 scientists noticing?

Good luck with your ever-advancing conspiracy theory, which must include more than a dozen people by now.

[Cold Heat]

Lookie here my FR iend.....

I was responding to the reply made by someone else and the subject matter happens to be smack dab in the middle of my chosen field,(I am a Master Electrician)

Now that we have been properly introduced, the only comment I have to you about this magical invention is that “Thou Protest Too Much.”

I have been around for more than 60 years and have seen many of these things come and go....too many to remember. Some 35 years ago I got all excited about some guy’s new generator that purported to create far more energy than it consumed. It tuned out to be a total loss on my investment of time and money and somewhat of a embarrassment to me and many others but it taught me something. That “something” was simply that “If it looks and sounds better than it should, it likely is not what you think it is.”

Just some friendly advice because it is obvious to me that you are head over heels into this device. That alone should be a warning sign to you....not to me because I won’t believe it until they form a legit company and sell a few hundred of them and even after that I would question the feasibility and ability to scale up or down to to form factors that would be useful.

This cold fusion crap has been beat to death almost as long as the perpetual motion machine. It’s going to take a lot more than a few tests, and a as yet secret catalyst and a few claims before this guy gets any serious attention except for a few dreamers, and some decades ago I was one of those dreamers as you are today.

So if I were you, I would lighten up a bit and try harder to NOT take this creation so seriously that you isolate yourself from the critics and the questions they pose.

You may find yourself with more egg on your face than you can wash off easily....

[Kevmo]

Lookie here my FR iend..... I was responding to the reply made by someone else
***Then send it as freepmail. When you post it, it is posted to everyone, and that means the defenders of the hypothesis are expected to respond. Otherwise we are aske, why didn’t you respond to such & such???

[Kevmo]

the only comment I have to you about this magical invention is that “Thou Protest Too Much.”
***If LENR is a scaleable technology, then it will be the ost disruptive in history. How can a person be accused of “protesting too much” in such a situation, other than that you are arguing from a simple cliche and don’t know what you’re talking about?

[Cold Heat]

I’m gonna tell you one more time...

I don’t care if it’s a fraud or if it’s real...I don’t care to make a specific opinion to anyone regarding this device. I found it only interesting and I responded to some theories about electrical measurements which is my field.

I know virtually nothing about the core issue here which is cold fusion based chemical reactions. The only fusion I know that apparently has not been replicated by man is the fusion taking place on the sun. That I know about as I know something about Nuclear fission.

What seems to be taking place in this invention is old style alchemy which is another golden goose that has been chased for not decades but centuries in thousands of devices throughout history. None have ever actually worked...

If this inventor actually has something remotely useful I would be very surprised, but other than my public reply to you, I have nothing at all to contribute to your investigation of this except for what I have just said in reply to a uncalled for challenge from you personally.

Have a nice day....

[Kevmo]

I have been around for more than 60 years and have seen many of these things come and go....too many to remember.
***What a bunch of horse sheeite. When was the last time you saw this much controlled energy density demonstrated in contrast to gasoline? The answer is NEVER.

Some 35 years ago I got all excited about some guy’s new generator that purported to create far more energy than it consumed. It tuned out to be a total loss on my investment of time and money and somewhat of a embarrassment to me and many others but it taught me something.
***Did that dude submit to 7 independent scientists testing his box without him being present? No, he did not.

That “something” was simply that “If it looks and sounds better than it should, it likely is not what you think it is.”
***Well, now, I agree that you were a fool, but that does not mean that these 7 independent scientists who put their reputations on the line were as foolish as you.

Just some friendly advice
***Where is the advice? All you have done is tell a story of how foolish you have been in the past. Did your scam artist submit to 7 scientists, without even being present for the tests? no.

because it is obvious to me that you are head over heels into this device.
***You are still a fool. I think LENR is real. It has been replicated more than 14,700 times and that was before Rossi came onto the scene.

That alone should be a warning sign to you....
***When you were duped by a con artist, was his scientific finding replicated more than 14,700 times? Nope.

not to me because I won’t believe it until they form a legit company and sell a few hundred of them
***By that time, no one will be interested in what you have to say.

and even after that I would question the feasibility and ability to scale up or down to to form factors that would be useful.
***After they sold a few hundred of them? You are truly reduced in your mental capacity.

This cold fusion crap has been beat to death almost as long as the perpetual motion machine.
***Now you are relying upon cliches rather than looking into the facts for yourself. Truly sad.

It’s going to take a lot more than a few tests,
***What difference would it make to you, if you require hundreds to be sold? By that time LENR is an established reality and guys like you won’t be even allowed to invest in it.

and a as yet secret catalyst and a few claims before this guy gets any serious attention except for a few dreamers, and some decades ago I was one of those dreamers as you are today.
***As Edmund Storms says, “Word Salad”. Best of luck in your Ostrich Investment Approach.

So if I were you, I would lighten up a bit and try harder to NOT take this creation
***Then you acknowledge it is real, so your entire position is invalidated.

so seriously that you isolate yourself from the critics and the questions they pose.
***Perhaps you are getting at the differnce between hypercriticism and simple criticism. For Instance, do you acknowledge that the Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times, even before this guy Rossi came along? Hard to believe, isn’t it? And yet, it’s true, and conventional thinkers like you who have been ignorant of such facts seem to go out of their way to insult longtime freepers like me, so why is that?

You may find yourself with more egg on your face than you can wash off easily....
***My bet is that you beg off from further discussions due to your own ignorance... which suggests a certain egg on your face but no one talks about it because they forget about you.

[Cold Heat]

You are one sick puppy....

[Kevmo]

Kevmo:if there wasn’t something worth pursuing here?
You can see: YOU FINALLY SAID SOMETHING THAT MADE SENSE.
***You simply have not been paying attention. This is the kind of thing I have been sayin all along.

[Kevmo]

Kevmo:if there wasn’t something worth pursuing here?
You can see: YOU FINALLY SAID SOMETHING THAT MADE SENSE.
***You simply have not been paying attention. This is the kind of thing I have been sayin all along.

[Kevmo]

And so are you. If you are here to further scientific discourse, then GREAT.

If not, then you are among the anti-science Freepers for whom the admin mods prevent me from expressing my true sentiments. A pity, really, since FR is a constitutionalist website and this involves simple expression of first amendment rights.

But Thanks For Bumping The Thread T4BTT