Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas

Intrade Gateway via Extreme Tech ^ | May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Sebastian Anthony

[Kevmo]

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas

Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments

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Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.

The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.

As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.

This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.

As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.

If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.

Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time

Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”

[Kevmo]

There are literally thousands upon thousands of scientists in the world and these are the only 7 that want to be involved in something that is a for sure thing?
***It was not a sure thing at all. Not in the slightest. They were assured that if they got negative results they could publish what they find.

Personally, I don’t care what kind of credentials your 7 superhero-scientists have, if it’s just them and 1000’s upon thousands of other scientists have nothing to do with what they’re doing (given it’s a for sure thing) that tells me something.
***Science by consensus. Ridiculous notion.

I’m sorry, if this a flame-posting but dang dude, you’ve posted your superhero-scientist roster like 4 or 5 times like the list itself is going to make everything true.
***I’ve posted it far less than the number of times that their credentials have been questioned. Same post, over and over, asking how serious these “scientists” are, or suggesting they’re too stupid to take multimeter and temperature readings. Yet, you key up on my response rather than the spam that generates the response.

[Kevmo]

I see a lot of discussion of the Casimir effect in relation to LENR. I’ve been meaning to drill down on that aspect. It can be difficult theoretical concepts to absorb.

[Kevmo]

Serious about fraud.
***Good luck with your ever-expanding conspiracy, then.

Which raises the question of why you need 7 academics to do the job,
***There is just no pleasing the hyperskeptic. If it were 3 academics, you’d say that wasn’t enough and they’re subject to bribery from Rossi. It comes down to simple measurements of Energy In and Energy Out. They reported the results. Rossi wasn’t even there when they measured it. They had a camera on the device the whole time, so there were no shenanigans.

[Kevmo]

I did not use the term “Luddite” in the last thread which was pulled. I have the thread saved from cache.

[MHGinTN]

But the equations are rather well defined.

[Kevmo]

I agree. But the effect is difficult to understand. And with all that math, it gets even more difficult.

[count-your-change]

I'm dumb founded that what I clearly said could be so obviously reversed: I said the claim was that the e-cat produced more energy than it consumed but you wrote,

“Lots of things have more energy in than out.” You aren't one of those seven, are you?

But now the test has been verified! Cheap, nearly free, energy in virtually unlimited amounts is available, the holy grail has been found, the philosopher's stone, yet where are all the scientists proclaiming the world saved?

Maybe they aren't impressed with “The Verification”?? Are they waiting on peer review in Rossi’s journal?

[Kevmo]

It was obviously a typo. Unless you somehow think a gasoline motor has more energy in than out?

[Admin Moderator]

Cold fusion is a chat topic, not political news which is the core purpose for this forum. You partially have yourself to blame for these threads turning into flamewars by the way you conduct yourself in them, such as calling those who disagree with you "luddites" when they are nothing of the sort. I would imagine these threads would have a higher survival rate if you and others would learn to ignore the posters you dislike instead of turning the threads into a food fight over those disagreements.

Beyond that, putting something into the backroom should be a last resort, not a planned flight path for this topic.

And I really don't want to have to come back to this thread. Better things to do on a holiday weekend than babysit chronic whiners.

[Kevmo]

I would imagine these threads would have a higher survival rate if you ... would learn to ignore the posters you dislike
***Then so shall it be, for me. Thanks for bumping the thread.

[UCANSEE2]

***Actually,that would be considered old news on Vortex-L,

But that's not where we are.

[Kevmo]

Right. FR is for discussing politics. And the biggest things in politics today are oil, energy, money. All of that is due for a huge upheaval if LENR is a scaleable technology, but LENR is a “chat” topic. As a result, freepers are behind the curve on such things as this out-of-the-cylinder thinking being discussed. They are behind the curve and they regularly denigrate those who are ahead of them. So, you’re right. That’s not where we are. We are behind them, even though freepers look down on them.

[UCANSEE2]

Then why do the mods pull such threads

You know why. I have been on threads that have been pulled, and recently had a thread of my own pulled, and in each case, I can understand why they did it.

You have to realize that CHEAP ABUNDANT ENERGY is a very provocative subject and like the RELIGIOUS threads, often a FLAME WAR ensues with massive personal attacks.

While one can support your quest to 'inform' the world of new developments, I must say that it seems you get some joy out of the controversy on YOUR threads, because you work very hard to 'engage' others in debate.

What I mean is that if it really bothered you that much, you have complete freedom to post your information on other websites.

Jim Robinson (and Mods) have more concern over the continuance of F.R. as a FAMILY FRIENDLY OPEN FORUM DISCUSSION WEBSITE where DEBATE is to be conducted with SOME CIVILITY and RESPECT FOR OTHERS.

When a thread deteriorates with personal abuse, regardless to the intent of the 'author', then it must go.

You see that, don't you ?

[Kevmo]

You have to realize that CHEAP ABUNDANT ENERGY is a very provocative subject
***Then maybe posting it to the smoky backroom is the right thing to do after all.

[count-your-change]

A typo? If you say so, o.k.. Can we now wait for the oil companies and utilities to close down? 10,000 times the energy of gasoline, where is the scientific community just before the world energy balance shifts to Italy? or maybe West Palm Beach?

To answer my own question: This verification seems to have produced a great yawn. Is there no respect for these eminent seven? Or will they ask about how the nickle lattice was maintained at far above/below it's transition phase temperature?

There are just so many things wrong with this so-called verification that no one but the hard core zealots are going to see it as the salvation of the energy starved. The rest are going to say wait and see, more waiting than seeing.

[Kevmo]

While one can support your quest to ‘inform’
***why do you put a quote around the word?

the world of new developments,
***That is exactly my quest, without the hint of sarcasm.

I must say that it seems you get some joy out of the controversy on YOUR threads,
***Not at all. I don’t shy away from controversy, but it isn’t enjoyable. I must say that all the personal attacks and abuse from fellow freepers is unexpected and disappointing, especially when this “new development” has been independently verified by 7 scientists.

because you work very hard to ‘engage’ others in debate.
***Again, why do you put a quote mark around the word? I agree with the statement without the intended sarcasm. I do engage others in debate. But so many people resort to classic fallacies that it’s astounding they have college degrees. Critical thinking is a freshman level, required course. Yet we see classic fallacies from people who claim graduate level exposure in sciences. It is astounding.

[djf]

Yet, time will tell, eh?

And someone, either way a LOT of someones are going to be eating a lot of crow!

Could turn out to be one of the biggest crow cook-offs in the history of mankind!

I know enough science and physics to find myself in the reluctantly skeptical group. I’d love it to be true, it may indeed be true, but the science as I know it doesn’t support it, unless it’s some undiscovered quantum physics wave thingie.

One thing everyone needs to admit, though. There are groups, very, very powerful groups who have an enormous vested interest in making sure this type of thing NEVER gets public acceptance.

What percentage of the total economy the energy sector is I don’t know. But it’s double digit, no doubt. Maybe as much as 30%

[UCANSEE2]

Resource driven wars become a thing of the past.

Because.... the Magic Pixie Dust inside the cylinder is abundantly available all over the planet, and it's completely free. (/s)

[UCANSEE2]

Do a little digging, and you'll quickly discover that a lot of well known companies are quietly racing to get on base with this before the whole world catches on.

So... this isn't the FREE ENERGY SOLUTION touted by some on this thread. It is merely switching WHO WE PAY.

[Kevmo]

This verification seems to have produced a great yawn.
***Oh, well. There’s a silver lining in that cloud. But I’ll keep it to myself for now.

Is there no respect for these eminent seven?
***They aren’t eminent. They’re just ordinary scientists.

Or will they ask about how the nickle lattice was maintained at far above/below it’s transition phase temperature?
***It was a black box test. Measure Power In and Power Out. Report the results. Pretty simple, except that people like you seem to think they can’t measure power.

There are just so many things wrong with this so-called verification
***Then address them. If someone measured a resistor by Power-in and Heat-out, do you require them to open up the resistor to see how it works? They’re just measuring something. So if it’s a particularly fancy resistor and the inventor wants to keep his secrets, you just measure Power In/Power Out and report your results. It is a verification of the fancy-dancy new resistor’s power usage, that’s all. Yet you say that “There are just so many things wrong with this”. Show what’s wrong with the measurement.