Look Past The Dragons In Game of Thrones

New York Magazine ^ | May 19, 2013 | Matt Zoller Seitz

[OddLane]

We’re only halfway through the season, and it’s only May, but it’s already hard for me to imagine any show topping Game of Thrones on my 2013 year-end best-of list. There are more innovative and original series, but none that satisfies on so many levels, or that juggles so much plot and so many characters with the appearance of ease.

Since HBO’s blockbuster adaptation of George R.R. Martin’s fiction debuted in 2011, many have lodged complaints about the show’s racial stereotypes and simplistic sexual dynamics—and rightly so; Thrones was a problematic series and still is, despite course corrections that suggest showrunners David Benioff and D. B. Weiss heard their critics. Beyond that, however, the show doesn’t get enough credit. Nearly a decade after ­Peter Jackson won Oscars for a film ­series about wizards and hobbits, fantasy is still seen as disreputable nerd bait rather than a legitimate mainstream genre.

That should change this year, and if it doesn’t, fans can cry foul.

[Southack]

"Daenyrs = Henry Tudor. He was referred to as “The Dragon” and his standard was that of a dragon."

That's fitting because Game of Thrones re-uses the actors/actresses from The Tudors.

[chris37]

Mmm no, book 4 was good and book 5 was great.

[chris37]

He has 2 co authors working with him so not to worry.

[chris37]

Not the case.

Sandor is awesome in the book and in the series. There is no difference.

[chris37]

“The book did not offer any greater depth than the TV show.”

Stopped reading right there.

This post offers no depth whatsoever.

[Yosemitest]

" These and so many other moments are emotional but not sentimental; they’re tough, in the way that life is.
Thrones’ characters are in a constant struggle for survival, trying to balance the requirements of family and nation against their own oft-thwarted desires
and get through each day with their heads still attached to their necks.
They scheme and compromise, and love and suffer, and we can see ourselves in all of them, heroes and fools alike.
Game of Thrones is set in a fantastical universe, a land of dragons and zombies and giant wolves and fire demons,
but it’s the realest show on TV. "

Very well said, and I agree.

[higgmeister]

Wars of the Roses

Welcome to my blog! I’m the author of four historical novels set in medieval England, with a fifth one set in Tudor England due in 2012.

As a writer of biographical fiction, one of my main goals is to avoid the stereotypes, myths, and misconceptions that have gathered around historical figures over the centuries. At the same time, I strive to remain true to known historical facts and to the mores of the times in which my characters lived. I use both primary sources—chronicles, letters, wills, diplomatic dispatches, household inventories, land grants, royal records, and so forth—and modern historical research to achieve my primary goal, which is bringing my characters to life.

My first two novels, set in fourteenth-century England, feature the Despenser family: The Traitor’s Wife: A Novel of the Reign of Edward II and Hugh and Bess.

My third novel, The Stolen Crown, set during the Wars of the Roses, is narrated by Henry, Duke of Buckingham, and his wife, Katherine Woodville. My fourth novel, The Queen of Last Hopes focuses on Margaret of Anjou, one of the most maligned queens in English history.

I have just published my fifth novel, Her Highness, the Traitor, narrated by Frances Grey, Duchess of Suffolk, and Jane Dudley, Duchess of Northumberland, the mother and the mother-in-law of the tragic Lady Jane Grey.

I use this blog to post about history (mostly late medieval and Tudor England), historical fiction, and whatever strikes my fancy from time to time. Thanks for stopping by!

[fr_freak]

Got bad news for you, fanboy - this show is not complex. It actually is rather cliched. I understand that liking the show is a source of great intellectual pride for you, and gosh, I sure am sorry that my criticism left you so wounded, but you really should find better ways to spend your energy.

[x]

Actually, I think that is one of the show's main failings, which tends to make it boring: there are plenty of evil characters, but not really any good ones, so you never really get emotionally involved with the story. You're just watching a bunch of a**holes battling for supremacy. I know the show is designed to have the audience root for the Stark family, but they aren't particularly endearing either. I think a really engaging show has to give the audience someone to root for, and ideally, someone to root against.

That's pretty true to the medieval background, isn't it? You can sympathize with someone as a victim, but after getting a taste of power, he or she may well misuse it. If a person can behave well both in good and bad circumstances that's a sign of true character, but maybe it's less common than one might think.

I recognize that it can be a problem for viewers, but it's pretty realistic to find characters corrupted by jockeying for power in whatever era (okay, I know that it's not actually medieval, but it has that feel) or on whatever planet.

[discostu]

Yeah not complex at all:

Sorry bub just because YOU can't understand doesn't means it's boring. It usually means you're boring.

Bye now. Done with you. Have fun telling everybody how wrong they are for enjoying something that's going over your head.

[Rebelbase]

“Maybe there’s more going on, a leader is emerging among “her” people, “The Worm.””

After last night’s episode I’ll wager it’s the fabio looking dude who watched Danerys stand up nekkid in the bathtub.

[tbw2]

Marjorie Tyrell and Cersei are scheming women fighting to be queen - very historically accurate for many women in a feudal society.
Men choosing religions (Stannis choosing the fire priestess) to bolster their claim to power is how we got the Holy Roman empire.
Girls assigned to lords to seal deals is a simplistic sexual dynamic, but it was standard for most of human history.

[matginzac]

Wow! Thanks for this....
I’ve got a million books waiting but will give one of these a try.
I confess that I’m not too fond of historical fiction but have surprisingly enjoyed a few in the past. I took an interest in the War of the Roses only recently and would appreciate a story that would help sort through some aspects. Should be fun...again, thanks.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

Mmm no, book 4 was good and book 5 was great.

Obviously a lot of people agree with you - those two books were the highest sellers in the series. But I continue to believe that the success of the series is to be found before the last gasp-inducing page of 'A Storm of Swords'.

Even 'A Clash of Kings' - the same kind of transitional book that 4 and 5 are - accomplished the introduction of multiple new characters and storylines with plenty of humor, drama, battle and some epic "gotcha" moments while Martin skillfully set his pieces in place for the big events to follow.

These days the story pacing is glacial. We're treated to exquisitely detailed descriptions of dresses and uniforms, detailed descriptions of how bloated corpses react when poked with swords, detailed descriptions of the various foods eaten by characters, detailed descriptions of sex, detailed descriptions of dysentery - right down to color and consistency.

This is what writers do to fill pages when they've written themselves into corners and don't know how to move their story forward. Meanwhile (with the notable exception of Theon), none of the characters actually did much of anything. A real pity - such a great, sustained beginning and middle, but no good end in sight.

[higgmeister]

Wow! Thanks for this....

I stumbled on it by chance. My brother was in college with a Susan Higginbotham and one day out of curiosity I Googled the name and hit this. It is not the same person that my brother knew but seemed interesting.

[fr_freak]

I recognize that it can be a problem for viewers, but it's pretty realistic to find characters corrupted by jockeying for power in whatever era (okay, I know that it's not actually medieval, but it has that feel) or on whatever planet.

No argument here on that point. However, accurate history doesn't always translate to good storytelling. If it did, we'd all be studying history instead of watching TV, heh. I just think the show would be better if we had a solid person or persons to root for. I recognize that some people don't need that, though.

[fr_freak]

Hey, thanks for the picture of your family tree. I get why you think the show is so complex now - you equate many characters with complexity. For you, that may be true. I understand that a bunch of different people, all with different names and stuff, can be hard for some people to follow. I know you were worried that I was also having trouble following it, but you can rest easy. I can follow it just fine. In fact, I can sometimes even predict what's going to happen before they even show it. That's what makes it boring, sometimes.

Also, note the use of the word "sometimes". That's what I started out saying in the first post, that the show can be boring, with the implied "sometimes". You'll also notice the lack of accusing anyone of being wrong for liking the show. Once you realize that, then you will begin to understand how much you were acting like a douche in your reply to me.

But, since you're done with me and everything, I'll just say, enjoy your show and have a nice day.

[chris37]

I look at it like this. He originally intended a 3 book series. Then he decided on 7.

Book three has a sort of finality to it in terms of certain characters who do not go past this book. Book 4 and 5 occur at the same time even though they were released at different times in reality.

It is in book 4 and 5 that the end game plots are set in motion, and as a result of this, a number of new characters and scenarios are introduced.

I thought a number of things occurred in these 2 books event wise and most importantly character development wise.

Personally, I do not always need a major battle or occurrence to satisfy me, though I realize others are different.

In book 4 we had extensive development of Jaime, an amazing character who started off much differently. Development of Arya, my favorite character. Cersei’s walk, which was great. Development of Baelish and Alayne and their scenario plus the interesting occurrence at the end.

Book 5 to me was all about Danaerys and her children. What occurred there was just absolutely awesome. Of course there was Jon Snow’s events, some magnificent development of Tyrion, Penny, an poor Mormont. I love what was done with Tyrion here, I think he may have found what he has been looking for his whole life. Further development of Arya which is always great for me.

And finally the setting of the stage for the possible return of a long lost prince, I forgot to mention the development of the pirates, a future group of antagonists I think, the introduction of Robert Strong, which I suspect will continue the Clegane saga, which is awesome.

You know I do not always need epic events to justify my enjoying it, because it is the characters themselves that I love spending time with.

I really hope HBO follows the series through book 7, because I have truly enjoyed it despite them going over board with Ser Loras.

[chris37]

Whoops, I also forgot to mention that I do not think any of the writers, Martin has 2 co-authors, have written themselves in the corner.

Reading the books twice now, it is very clear that they knew exactly where they were going very early on, because there are direct hints of what is coming, if not neon flashing road signs.

Considering that there were years between releases of the books, it is obvious that they have a map or an outline of where they are going and how they want to get there.

[AnotherUnixGeek]

Whoops, I also forgot to mention that I do not think any of the writers, Martin has 2 co-authors, have written themselves in the corner.

He does? That one is news to me - I've been reading the books since the 'A Game of Thrones' was published, and I'd never before heard that Martin has collaborators in writing the books. Did Martin reveal this recently?

it is very clear that they knew exactly where they were going very early on, because there are direct hints of what is coming, if not neon flashing road signs.

I have no doubt that Martin has always known the broad outlines of the story plots and how things will end, but as we saw in his decision to abandon the five-year narrative gap and pick up the story the next day in 'A Feast for Crows', how he gets there is being made up as he goes along. And in his 'Not A Blog', he's spent a lot of time talking about the Meereenese Knot he was trying to untangle his story-line from.

He didn't seem to have this much trouble with the first three books, which all came out within a few years of each other. These days he seems to complain a lot about how hard it is to write the story.