Posted on 03/27/2013 12:09:10 PM PDT by marktwain
A lively discussion about justice, self-defense, property rights and the use of lethal force has erupted in Spokane this week in the wake of a fatal Monday morning shooting in which a recidivist car thief was fatally shot by his latest victim as he drove away in the shooter’s Chevy Suburban.
The debate is on-going on this morning's Spokane Spokesman-Review's web page below a story that says police may turn over the results of their investigation to prosecutors today.
Should car thieves risk getting shot dead? When Washington achieved statehood in November 1889, there were still places in the West where horse thieves just might find themselves dangling from a tree limb. Whatever else the horse was, it happened to be a means of transportation for the owner, and the same can be said of the Suburban.
The horse, like the Suburban, could be essential to the owner’s livelihood. It might, under the right circumstances, be the difference between living and dying for the owner.
Of course, the dead man's family is calling the shooting "senseless." One might suggest it makes as much sense as repeatedly stealing cars.
Washington State statute is pretty clear on the subject of lethal force. Under existing law, homicide is justifiable when committed either:
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
In the old West, a stolen horse was evidence that the thief murdered the owner whose body could be anywhere in over a million square miles of wilderness.
Upon catching a horse thief, it was up to law enforcement to try to find the original owner. If the investigation turned out to be something like 'No, we haven't seen Jeb Coltrane since he ventured out to Tucumcari last month and never came back, but yes Sheriff, that's his horse alrighty', it meant unlawful killing with malice aforethought.
I think deadly force should be legal for the protection of property, along with life and limb. Property represents an amount of life energy and time expended that one can never, ever get back.
I don’t know that I would kill to protect my property in every situation. I might not. But it should be legal for me, in any case.
It’s a very liberal state in many ways, but gun rights reign supreme: one in fifteen adults have a CCW license - one of the highest percentages in the nation.
You might want to take another look at the law. If you shoot a fleeing felon over a property crime in Washington state, you will be in a world of trouble.
If you are involved in a shooting, one of the first things that you want the world to know, is that you were afraid for your life or the life of another.
Shooting some dipstick in the back as he is running out of your house with your television or toaster just isn’t going to work.
whoever printed that sign needs to slow down a bit and zip back to the third grade and learn to spell.. ANWSER?? and many others.
wow... tough break for anyone finding an actual lost horse of an owner who died of natural causes on the trail or something
Here’s a recent case from 2012, Walla Walla, WA. But of course there is a possibility of a private lawsuit.
http://union-bulletin.com/news/2012/aug/13/walla-walla-prosecutor-will-not-file-charges/
In a letter stating his decision not to prosecute, Nagle stated the Washington State Legislature and Supreme Court have “made it clear that” a person should not be charged with murder or manslaughter “when they are defending themselves, their property, or against a felony, unless the prosecution has sufficient evidence to prove the absence of any of the defenses to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.”
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Walla Walla County Prosecuting Attorney Jim Nagle will not file charges against John Saul, 63, in the shooting death of Cesar Chavira, 22.
A six-person coroner’s inquest jury ruled Friday that Saul committed a justifiable homicide. The ruling by a majority of jurors came after two days of testimony from law enforcement officers and a forensic pathologist.
According to a Walla Walla County Sheriff’s Office investigation conducted by Detective Sgt. Gary Bolster, Chavira broke into the New York Store at roughly 2:30 a.m. on May 4. According to testimony from Walla Walla police officers, Saul stated Chavira threatened him during the burglary.
Bolster’s investigation showed that Saul fired his 12-gauge shotgun five times at a distance between 120 and 155 feet, striking Chavira in the back with nearly 50 pellets of No. 4 buckshot. Chavira was in the street outside the store when Saul fired the shots.
Nagle also pointed out the slayer does not have to prove the homicide was justifiable. According to Nagle, the jury must be convinced “beyond any reasonable doubt that a person was not defending themselves, their property or against a felony.”
“The jury verdict of the coroner’s inquest indicates how difficult the prosecution of this case would be,” Nagle wrote in a the letter sent this morning.
“However, had any of the particular facts in this case been different, the reasonableness and necessity of (Saul’s) actions would be highly doubtful, and he would likely be facing serious charges,” Nagle added.
Mike Hubbard, Saul’s attorney, said Nagle’s decision is “the right and just choice,” and added that Saul is sorry for the shooting death.
“John is a very peaceful, nonviolent type of guy,” Hubbard said. “It’s been extremely hard on him.”
Michelle Trombley, an attorney with the Kennewick law firm Rodriguez and Associates, stated Chavira’s family will sue Saul, despite the coroner’s inquest verdict. Trombley could not be reached as of press time Monday.
FRiend, I don’t care to study the issue. I was only trying to help you think.
You believe and do what you want, but if you shoot and kill the idiot that has just stolen your riding lawnmower and making his getaway while driving it down your driveway, you’ll be going to prison.
This ain’t Texas, no matter how much we might want it to be.
Have a great day....
Fine - don’t study it. The punk with 50 pellets in his back in Walla Walla stole a handful of belts and buckles.
There’s my personal opinion and my legal opinion (not advice). Personal opinion - don’t steal and it won’t happen. Legal - don’t risk it unless you are in imminent danger.
Modern day comparison would be "Officer, I just innocently found these five kilo packages of heroin out in a field. In fact, I was taking them to the police station to turn over you guys when you pulled me over for my taillight being out..."
You have a private message.
I think the guy deserved what he got, criminals live short lives. May this be a lesson to current alive criminals. Scumbags like this steal from me, my friends and family. We work hard for our money and these little punks think they can take whats not theirs. Then you have the cops who wont even catch them or help you find out who stole your stuff. Its time we take matters into our own hands. Justice for all.
You can say what you want to defend the car thiefs, but they made that decision to get into drugs, gangs, violence, theft. Not us. Theives harm others that are trying to do good to the community because they cant handle their own lives like real men and get a real job. Its causing degradation, emotinal distress, unsafe living areas, and they pawn that hard earned stuff off for less than you paid for it.
TL;DR Theifs cause so much bullshit, that one bullet is worth taking care of it all. Murica.
Oh and I encourage you all to arm yourself and shoot the guns you use regularly either at a range or up in the mountains. Get self defence training if possible. You never know when you may be the next victim.
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