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Need advice on Gold/Precious metals Purchasing
The Telegraph (indirectly) ^ | 3/19/2013 | Me

Posted on 03/19/2013 4:13:06 PM PDT by freedumb2003

I really want advice from FReepers who have invested in Gold and other precious metals.

The Cyprus thing got me nervous. The idea that a country could say "we will immediately do a Wealth Tax" was out of my realm of thinking.

But the fact this happened with the OK of the IMF (of which the USA is the largest influence) is what scares me.

Now Brussels in on that same road of pure State theft.

And let's face it, any country stupid enough to tax people for existing (aka obamacare) will be arrogant enough to levy an overnight "wealth tax."

Kartographer, I owe you an apology. I don't see an apocalyptic "Mad Max" SHTF future. But for the first time I see that the institutions and so-called "rules of law" are of little meaning.

I think my qualifications as an honest and thoughtful FReeper are here.

I need to secure about $250K (please, no post office boxes nor Nigerian Lawyer addresses).

How best to buy real gold? And ensure its real delivery?

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: comingtousasoon; gold; goldpurchase; goldsilver; iwaswrong; preciousmetals; wtshf
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To: Ron C.

I believe any attempt on our government to do a Cyprus here would result in the government sending the same notice to any and all banks, investment entities, etc.

That would mean that regardless of where your money was, be it in gold, stocks, pension funds, trusts, whatever, it would be up for grabs.

As for the stupid idea that you can trade gold for food or fuel, I would suggest that when money becomes worthless or subject to being grabbed by the gummit, the merchants will be very happy to get gold or silver coin rather than worthless paper.

Now it might mean that rather than using gold coin at the store, you would need to go directly to the farmer as it would be much easier for a farmer to sell to you “off the books”.

If you think you would rather have gold or silver now rather than paper money, how do you think the guy with something to sell that you want will feel about gold vs. paper when the monetary system goes mad?

He will be glad to get it.

But as someone else said, carrying gold coins in a time of turmoil would make self defence a serious matter.


41 posted on 03/19/2013 5:29:30 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: freedumb2003

By the way I still don’t see a ‘Mad Max’ scenario myself, but a ‘Bosnian’ type that would be bad enough for me and I deem very possible in a country as divided as we are becoming.


42 posted on 03/19/2013 5:29:59 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: freedumb2003

Generally speaking, it is imprudent to make any investment decision in a panic. It’s probably best to ease into an gold and silver position rather than to buy all at once.

Rule #1: Take possession of any precious metal that you buy.
Rule #2: Shop around for best price and terms. These can vary quite significantly.
Rule #3: If you feel like you’re getting a high-pressure sales pitch, it’s probably for a reason. Hang up.

Remember that the buy/sell spreads are quite significant. Physical metals are a very long term “investment” (in quotes because metals really aren’t investments but just another form of money.)


43 posted on 03/19/2013 5:39:14 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: Ron C.

Don’t buy bullion? I do not see any advantage in paying a premium for coins. Why pay the extra for minting?


44 posted on 03/19/2013 5:42:28 PM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: freedumb2003
One last comment before I have to move on... despite the posts here to the contrary, highly collectable high numismatic value US gold and silver coins are easily sold legally at many dealerships. Yes, you will take a hit on the sale of these coins, as the dealer always tries to sell at the top price, and buys at a lower price (the way the dealer makes his money.) There is NO reporting done, and none is required by law. Could such a law be passed? Highly unlikely, as many in government have large holding in high-dollar collectable US gold and silver coinage.

Don't forget to look at the latest US Mint coinage - like pure silver 1.5 oz Polar Bear coins. Many advise buying more silver than gold coins, as it is highly likely that it will advance faster in value than gold will in the near future.

45 posted on 03/19/2013 5:44:55 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Aevery_Freeman

Cases of single malt Scotch whiskey are a very good hedge ... much better than gold, though not quite so compact.

It has near-infinite shelf-life, and its price only goes up over time. If TEOTWAWKI doesn’t happen, you still get to drink your whiskey.


46 posted on 03/19/2013 5:45:44 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: SgtHooper

NVM, it all has been explained above. But another major concern, it the price of precious metals gold can dive in a moment leaving holders with an enormous loss.


47 posted on 03/19/2013 5:50:29 PM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: freedumb2003

Scout your area. Find pawn shops, coin shops and any other place than might sell precious metals. Buy slowly from all of them. Don’t drop $250K in one place all at once. Don’t let anyone know you have it and don’t let the shop owners you’re buying elsewhere.


48 posted on 03/19/2013 5:51:29 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: SgtHooper

Better to buy bullion coins like the US Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, or Austrian Philharmonic in my opinion. They are easy to recognize, easy to authenticate by appearance, weight, and dimensions, and have a fairly small premium over bullion spot price. The US Eagle has an advantage in that the US Secret Service protects against counterfeiting. The other two coins are 0.9999 Au and are extremely difficult to counterfeit, assuming one checks weight and dimensions.

BTW, if you buy physical bullion you’re still going to pay a premium over quoted spot prices.


49 posted on 03/19/2013 5:53:13 PM PDT by Skepolitic
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To: Joe Boucher

I agree with your method. Buy coins (Canadian Maple Leafs, US Eagles, S.A. Krugerrands) and carefully stash them where nobody can find them. Buy them a couple at a time, and mix it up. Maybe even get a couple of close, trusted relatives to take delivery for you. Find a big-time dealer where you can walk in and make occasional purchases.

Anchor a good, well-hidden safe to a lot of concrete, and find a way to booby trap it against government seizure, while ensuring that innocent family members are made aware of the explosives in the event of your passing. Try to keep knowledge of the safe’s existence as limited as humanly possible (for example, you and your adult son). Keep the contents of the safe absolutely secret and strictly to yourself, if possible. File a sealed letter with a trusted family attorney and give him/her a heads up.

At least 25% of your nest egg should be in a hole in the ground.


50 posted on 03/19/2013 5:59:17 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Skepolitic

I checked Monet prices, and US Govey uncircs and proofs, which cost a premium, but who needs that quality anyway, and you are correct, the Monet costs between bullion and coins is really nothing. Go with the recognized and trusted stampings.


51 posted on 03/19/2013 6:15:12 PM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: Yosemitest

When I was stationed in Germany years ago, I heard the story about how during the hyper-inflation of the 1920s, a man bought an entire city block in Frankfurt for one one-ounce gold coin. Probably an urban legend, but I bought a Suisse Franc with my very first tax return just in case. I always wanted my own city block.


52 posted on 03/19/2013 6:21:00 PM PDT by g.i.joe
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To: g.i.joe
I don't like the city.
It's usually very poor soil, and it won't grow anything.
53 posted on 03/19/2013 6:27:28 PM PDT by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Skepolitic
You, sir, are a brilliant man.
54 posted on 03/19/2013 6:37:16 PM PDT by Aevery_Freeman (They say "Right Wing" but they mean "Wrong Wing"!)
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To: Ron C.

Ron, I don’t know where you get your information, but it’s almost all wrong.

1) The only gold coins ever confiscated by the US government were ones it created at the mint. Those coins “belong” to the Treasury and could be confiscated again, just as they were before.

2) I’ve been a coin collector since 1959. “Numismatic value” is highly subjective, much of it is fraudulent, and in any case it is critically dependent on orderly markets. In a crisis, the “numismatic” value component of almost all coins goes to zero.

3) Foreign gold coins have no special legal or regulatory status. They are just the same as US gold prior to 1933, and are probably safer than post-1986 “legal tender” US mint issues.


55 posted on 03/19/2013 6:44:01 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: freedumb2003; jiggyboy; PA Engineer; blam; TigerLikesRooster; Cheap_Hessian; CJinVA; Jet Jaguar; ...

Goldbug ping.


56 posted on 03/19/2013 6:45:26 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: freedumb2003
The Cyprus thing got me nervous. The idea that a country could say "we will immediately do a Wealth Tax" was out of my realm of thinking.

Gold and silver are ok, especially for large amounts like you are discussing, but there are alternatives that may be more important. Cypriots are lining up to get their cash out of their banks. This is because they need their money for daily expenses, paying off debts, etc. They are not going to the banks to withdraw their gold. At this moment, what they need most of all, is good old paper cash.

If they had stored up cash reserves in old school paper bills at home, (1) the government couldn't find it in the first place, and (2) they wouldn't be so critically dependent on what is in their bank account, and can function buying food, etc, until the banks open. Gold and silver may be a good long term investment, but physical cash is much more important for day to day survival than most preppers give credit for.

If I withdrew all my money from banks and bought gold, and waited for the SHTF, and then the day after the SHTF I go try to buy something I need with the gold, I likely couldn't buy it. If I think well, I will sell gold then for cash and then buy what I need, that will not be likely, as the banks are closed, and the top thing on everyone else's wish list is cash at that point, not gold. Nobody will want your gold, at least not until things settled down quite a bit and we are back to using sea shells for money.

57 posted on 03/19/2013 6:46:25 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: freedumb2003
One more link to add to your reading...

this one on the possibility of US confiscation of gold.

If you keep your coins (bullion coins too) in a safe place (like major investment firm vaults) there is very little to be worried about. Some people hide a few near or in their home, but that has its pitfalls too (though I do it myself.)

But, I like the ability to lay my hands on a coin or two and go cash 'em in when I need quick extra cash.

Drop me some FRmail if you have more questions.

58 posted on 03/19/2013 6:57:07 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: Skepolitic; Kartographer

>>Generally speaking, it is imprudent to make any investment decision in a panic.<<

Of all the really great posts (and I appreciate all of them), this is the one I want to address.

This isn’t panic. This is a change in my understanding of the world. As I told Kartographer (courtesy ping), I finally viscerally understand his perspective.

Even if Cyprus halted for the moment the theft of their money, the fact that the EU and the IMF (read: the USA) sanctioned the theft is all we need to know. The Brussels follow-up is the ramp-up.

A few years ago we would have NEVER thought it possible to be taxed for just existing. Now, we live with that tax.

Now, with the idea not just implanted but ENCOURAGED, it will take little for the 51% to encourage and enact an immediate “wealth tax” beyond the onerous taxes already in place.

Our only option is to put our wealth beyond the reach of the liberals.

The Republicans have shown they can’t/won’t stop the downhill slide.

Your advice is very good. I have been a tough SOB on all my business dealings (house, car, etc.). I will be the same on this.

But it is time to liquidate, my friends. They won’t even pretend — they will take it from us overnight.


59 posted on 03/19/2013 6:58:45 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Establishment Republicans don't like that totalitarian thing unless it is THEIR totalitarian thing!)
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To: Vince Ferrer

>>f I withdrew all my money from banks and bought gold, and waited for the SHTF, and then the day after the SHTF I go try to buy something I need with the gold, I likely couldn’t buy it. <<

I understand that — beer would be a better medium of exchange than gold.

I am thinking more what can I hold that has value that is not expressed electronically.

In the Cyprus exemplar: People with bank accounts (would) have their accounts electronically docked by 6% to 10% and that amount moved the the assets of the holding bank.

People with money physically “in their mattresses” (many semi-poor people do indeed bank in their nightstands), would not be hit with the tax. Had they emptied their account at the ATM (to go to the casino or whatever), they would be exempt from the tax as well.

It is the frugal who are punished.

My take: emulate the cash-on-hand folk to shield from the (now I feel inevitable) theft of the government. At least I can keep the results of my labor safe from the first hammer blow.


60 posted on 03/19/2013 7:16:09 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Establishment Republicans don't like that totalitarian thing unless it is THEIR totalitarian thing!)
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