Posted on 03/19/2013 4:13:06 PM PDT by freedumb2003
I believe any attempt on our government to do a Cyprus here would result in the government sending the same notice to any and all banks, investment entities, etc.
That would mean that regardless of where your money was, be it in gold, stocks, pension funds, trusts, whatever, it would be up for grabs.
As for the stupid idea that you can trade gold for food or fuel, I would suggest that when money becomes worthless or subject to being grabbed by the gummit, the merchants will be very happy to get gold or silver coin rather than worthless paper.
Now it might mean that rather than using gold coin at the store, you would need to go directly to the farmer as it would be much easier for a farmer to sell to you “off the books”.
If you think you would rather have gold or silver now rather than paper money, how do you think the guy with something to sell that you want will feel about gold vs. paper when the monetary system goes mad?
He will be glad to get it.
But as someone else said, carrying gold coins in a time of turmoil would make self defence a serious matter.
By the way I still don’t see a ‘Mad Max’ scenario myself, but a ‘Bosnian’ type that would be bad enough for me and I deem very possible in a country as divided as we are becoming.
Generally speaking, it is imprudent to make any investment decision in a panic. It’s probably best to ease into an gold and silver position rather than to buy all at once.
Rule #1: Take possession of any precious metal that you buy.
Rule #2: Shop around for best price and terms. These can vary quite significantly.
Rule #3: If you feel like you’re getting a high-pressure sales pitch, it’s probably for a reason. Hang up.
Remember that the buy/sell spreads are quite significant. Physical metals are a very long term “investment” (in quotes because metals really aren’t investments but just another form of money.)
Don’t buy bullion? I do not see any advantage in paying a premium for coins. Why pay the extra for minting?
Don't forget to look at the latest US Mint coinage - like pure silver 1.5 oz Polar Bear coins. Many advise buying more silver than gold coins, as it is highly likely that it will advance faster in value than gold will in the near future.
Cases of single malt Scotch whiskey are a very good hedge ... much better than gold, though not quite so compact.
It has near-infinite shelf-life, and its price only goes up over time. If TEOTWAWKI doesn’t happen, you still get to drink your whiskey.
NVM, it all has been explained above. But another major concern, it the price of precious metals gold can dive in a moment leaving holders with an enormous loss.
Scout your area. Find pawn shops, coin shops and any other place than might sell precious metals. Buy slowly from all of them. Don’t drop $250K in one place all at once. Don’t let anyone know you have it and don’t let the shop owners you’re buying elsewhere.
Better to buy bullion coins like the US Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, or Austrian Philharmonic in my opinion. They are easy to recognize, easy to authenticate by appearance, weight, and dimensions, and have a fairly small premium over bullion spot price. The US Eagle has an advantage in that the US Secret Service protects against counterfeiting. The other two coins are 0.9999 Au and are extremely difficult to counterfeit, assuming one checks weight and dimensions.
BTW, if you buy physical bullion you’re still going to pay a premium over quoted spot prices.
I agree with your method. Buy coins (Canadian Maple Leafs, US Eagles, S.A. Krugerrands) and carefully stash them where nobody can find them. Buy them a couple at a time, and mix it up. Maybe even get a couple of close, trusted relatives to take delivery for you. Find a big-time dealer where you can walk in and make occasional purchases.
Anchor a good, well-hidden safe to a lot of concrete, and find a way to booby trap it against government seizure, while ensuring that innocent family members are made aware of the explosives in the event of your passing. Try to keep knowledge of the safe’s existence as limited as humanly possible (for example, you and your adult son). Keep the contents of the safe absolutely secret and strictly to yourself, if possible. File a sealed letter with a trusted family attorney and give him/her a heads up.
At least 25% of your nest egg should be in a hole in the ground.
I checked Monet prices, and US Govey uncircs and proofs, which cost a premium, but who needs that quality anyway, and you are correct, the Monet costs between bullion and coins is really nothing. Go with the recognized and trusted stampings.
When I was stationed in Germany years ago, I heard the story about how during the hyper-inflation of the 1920s, a man bought an entire city block in Frankfurt for one one-ounce gold coin. Probably an urban legend, but I bought a Suisse Franc with my very first tax return just in case. I always wanted my own city block.
Ron, I don’t know where you get your information, but it’s almost all wrong.
1) The only gold coins ever confiscated by the US government were ones it created at the mint. Those coins “belong” to the Treasury and could be confiscated again, just as they were before.
2) I’ve been a coin collector since 1959. “Numismatic value” is highly subjective, much of it is fraudulent, and in any case it is critically dependent on orderly markets. In a crisis, the “numismatic” value component of almost all coins goes to zero.
3) Foreign gold coins have no special legal or regulatory status. They are just the same as US gold prior to 1933, and are probably safer than post-1986 “legal tender” US mint issues.
Goldbug ping.
Gold and silver are ok, especially for large amounts like you are discussing, but there are alternatives that may be more important. Cypriots are lining up to get their cash out of their banks. This is because they need their money for daily expenses, paying off debts, etc. They are not going to the banks to withdraw their gold. At this moment, what they need most of all, is good old paper cash.
If they had stored up cash reserves in old school paper bills at home, (1) the government couldn't find it in the first place, and (2) they wouldn't be so critically dependent on what is in their bank account, and can function buying food, etc, until the banks open. Gold and silver may be a good long term investment, but physical cash is much more important for day to day survival than most preppers give credit for.
If I withdrew all my money from banks and bought gold, and waited for the SHTF, and then the day after the SHTF I go try to buy something I need with the gold, I likely couldn't buy it. If I think well, I will sell gold then for cash and then buy what I need, that will not be likely, as the banks are closed, and the top thing on everyone else's wish list is cash at that point, not gold. Nobody will want your gold, at least not until things settled down quite a bit and we are back to using sea shells for money.
this one on the possibility of US confiscation of gold.
If you keep your coins (bullion coins too) in a safe place (like major investment firm vaults) there is very little to be worried about. Some people hide a few near or in their home, but that has its pitfalls too (though I do it myself.)
But, I like the ability to lay my hands on a coin or two and go cash 'em in when I need quick extra cash.
Drop me some FRmail if you have more questions.
>>Generally speaking, it is imprudent to make any investment decision in a panic.<<
Of all the really great posts (and I appreciate all of them), this is the one I want to address.
This isn’t panic. This is a change in my understanding of the world. As I told Kartographer (courtesy ping), I finally viscerally understand his perspective.
Even if Cyprus halted for the moment the theft of their money, the fact that the EU and the IMF (read: the USA) sanctioned the theft is all we need to know. The Brussels follow-up is the ramp-up.
A few years ago we would have NEVER thought it possible to be taxed for just existing. Now, we live with that tax.
Now, with the idea not just implanted but ENCOURAGED, it will take little for the 51% to encourage and enact an immediate “wealth tax” beyond the onerous taxes already in place.
Our only option is to put our wealth beyond the reach of the liberals.
The Republicans have shown they can’t/won’t stop the downhill slide.
Your advice is very good. I have been a tough SOB on all my business dealings (house, car, etc.). I will be the same on this.
But it is time to liquidate, my friends. They won’t even pretend — they will take it from us overnight.
>>f I withdrew all my money from banks and bought gold, and waited for the SHTF, and then the day after the SHTF I go try to buy something I need with the gold, I likely couldn’t buy it. <<
I understand that — beer would be a better medium of exchange than gold.
I am thinking more what can I hold that has value that is not expressed electronically.
In the Cyprus exemplar: People with bank accounts (would) have their accounts electronically docked by 6% to 10% and that amount moved the the assets of the holding bank.
People with money physically “in their mattresses” (many semi-poor people do indeed bank in their nightstands), would not be hit with the tax. Had they emptied their account at the ATM (to go to the casino or whatever), they would be exempt from the tax as well.
It is the frugal who are punished.
My take: emulate the cash-on-hand folk to shield from the (now I feel inevitable) theft of the government. At least I can keep the results of my labor safe from the first hammer blow.
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