Can we prevent an open civil war?

self | 01/23/2013 | reluctantwarrior

[reluctantwarrior]

Can we wait four years to defend the constitution with force of arms?<>

Yes, if we launch a massive ground campaign to retake the senate in 2014 through electing Tea Party conservatives<>

Yes, if the House keeps gun control at bay until 2014 and we hold the House majority<>

Yes, if a million new folks join the NRA before the end of 2013 and pledge to vote for pro gun candidates<>

No, if we wait and see what happens in 2014

[meadsjn]

Ok, but what would you do? I know you dislike the NRA, but what would you do?

For whom are you collecting this information?

We had elections in 2010 and 2012 (or at least pretended).

None of us knows exactly what our future holds.

[abigkahuna]

By June 1st it won’t matter anymore...TPTB will have taken to their hidey holes as events have over taken them, and mucht of the US too.

[reluctantwarrior]

Im asking on my own behalf, I am trying to generate enthusiasm for politicking and civil disobedience as an alternative to open war before we give up on the republic. 100k freepers registering ten freeping lurkers or squishy moderates as republicans and getting them to the polls keeps the peace and moves us a small ways back to a representative republic.

[baddog 219]

The democrats have their matrix for elections.... Lie, Steal, and divide... We will never have another honest election again.

[Viennacon]

Or if that fails, continue stacking state houses and senates with conservatives, and elect conservative governors who’ll just say “no” to the president. If one state did this, he’d find a way to crush it, but if several banded together... Obama would have a problem.

[sport]

Mark

[sport]

Only by surrendering. Only by docially getting into the cattle cars. Other that that, no we can’t. They intend to wipe us out. The ball is now in our court.

[Randy Larsen]

Some of us don’t want to! It’s time to put this nation back on course with the Constitution!

[reluctantwarrior]

I would prefer a gathering of RKBA supporters as one earlier post mentioned all across the US to show that there are more of us than the chicken shyte gun grabbers and we won’t be pushed any further. A national call for the repeal of both the 1934 and 1986 gun laws limiting select fire weapons might be a good counter narrative.

[Eye of Unk]

Those overworked democrats in offices really should enjoy some fun in the sand.

I know of some tropical islands in the pacific that would be a great vacation getaway.

For about 6 months.

All of them.

No whiners, no excuses you all have been good loyal progressive leaders and America is rewarding you, whether you like it or not, take a vacation.

[hoagy62]

Okay...let’s think about it: If there is a ‘hot civil war’...how do you tell who the enemy is? In case you’re thinking that I’m picking on someone, I’m not aiming at anyone in particular. This is for everyone.

In the 1st Civil War, it was pretty easy. The Union soldiers wore blue uniforms and fought under the Star and Stripes. The Confederates wore gray uniforms and fought under the Stars and Bars. It was pretty clearly delineated who was fighting who.

Fast forward to now. What uniform does the enemy wear. What’s that you say...they DON’T? Then how do you tell if they’re the enemy?

You say “Liberals and Democrats are the enemy!”. Okay...how can you tell a liberal from a conservative?

Clothing?
Ethnicity?
Skin color?
Language?

Which of these is the ‘bad guy’? How will you tell?

What is the methodology for deciding who is the enemy? Don’t give me the line “If you don’t know by now...” I want to know: How will you decide who is the enemy?

[Viennacon]

Or how about the Senkaku Islands? I see no danger there for our precious libs. haha

[reluctantwarrior]

Great post and I can’t tell who the enemy is because many of them are ignorant not malicious. Many are products of a poor education system or open indoctrination but with some education and motivation may well swing the issue back to a more conservative outcome. If we openly attack them they are our enemies for a long time. I only feel true dislike to a few POTUS and VPOTUS and REID Pelosi and their minions. Most voters are ignorant and need to be led and informed not harmed or attacked. Naïve maybe but war is nasty and if you think you know how it will end tell it to the Headstones at Little Big Horn or the bleached bones on the Kabul Jalalabad road.

[Controlling Legal Authority]

It can be controlled because it would take a super majority of the states to ratify. But I am thinking that just the idea might put the fear into the people that need it to do their jobs under the current constitution. Frankly, and I am sad to say this, I am wondering if at this point if we have much to lose.

[spetznaz]

Is one even really possible? If people weren't even willing to go out and vote they'd be willing to go out and fight? All the government needs to do is maintain its decades-long course of making minor changes constantly, and a couple of larger changes intermittently. This is how the Republican party ended up being (far)more liberal than the Democrats were in the 1960s. This is how homosexuality has been more or less accepted (this, by the way, was very effectively done over two decades using the media). It will be the same for guns. Once the social rubric is altered, and there is constant inundation in the media and other fora on a subject, after some time that way of thought gets adopted as acceptable and true.

There will be no civil war. At most, maybe a couple of Waco type incidents, with public reactions similar to those that came up during the Waco incident. People tsk tsking at some 'silly people' getting killed, with some saying that 'maybe' the government overstepped its mandate, but those people were asking for it anyways. It is much easier to vote than it is to fight, and most people do not vote due to apathy and nonchalance. For the most part not because they think the process doesn't work, but rather because they simply have 'better things' to do. Yet the same people are willing to rise up and fight the government in civil war, when they cannot engage in less dangerous activities?

Finally, a civil war would be the end of the USA. I think there are some people who have certain fantasies about conflict, and as someone who has invested in emerging markets (I was in Liberia and Sierra Leone August last year) I can tell you conflicts and conflagrations are never clear cut. It is somewhat similar to those people who cannot wait for TEOTWAWKI, because they have enough bricks of ammo to build a small house and sufficient weaponry to start a small-scale war in Latin America. They have some sort of Omega Man fantasy, where they come out on top and keep winning. The truth is that in an actual TEOTWAWKI most of them would be killed in the first two waves (especially all who remain in suburbia), and the survivors would face anything from disease to other less-sexy threats that don't care if you are trying to do a remake of Heston's Omega Man. Same thing with civil war ...just on a bigger scale. It would not be like that silly 1980s TV series called V about reptilian aliens trying to dominate the world, and where the heroes would fight the aliens during the day and in the evening go home for some peaceful sleep before doing it again the next day.

All of that is moot anyways. There will be no civil war. All one needs to do is look at the shift in political thought in the US, where, as I mentioned, the current GOP would be too liberal for JFK, significantly. In another 2 decades that GOP (or whatever party will be the second half of the US two-party system) will make the current GOP seem extreme right.

The world will not end with a bang but with a whimper.

[re_nortex]

I yearn for a rebirth of these United States.

For the use of that one word alone, "these", a doff of the fedora to you. Thanks!

[Eye of Unk]

You are absolutely correct, so i will now turn in and get a few more hours of sleep knowing America has no intentions of another civil war.

The millions of new gun owners will just either resell their guns because they cannot get ammo, have no desire to die for honor or glory, have to opinions of striving for a better society, have no respect for our ancestors who did fight 24/7 to build this nation.

All I see is men without leadership, its as if some sort of experimental virus has been spread across the nation removing any thoughts of leadership, now arguably I think real leaders are those who don’t think they are but at the insistence of others take on the job.

Problem is nobody at all has conceptions of what leadership needs. The south had Stonewall Jackson, a fearless man that inspired others to obey him without question, now all we have is facebook likes and tweets, is this person approved by facebook, what a sad society we have become.

Too much softness, too much touchy feely, too much fear of being bold and brave, and most of all too many afraid to get down and dirty, some laws will be broken.

But I also think America is like a pot of beans right now, the beans are still too hard to make good chile, they need some more soak time, heat and spices.

[sand88]

, I am trying to generate enthusiasm for politicking and civil disobedience as an alternative to open war before we give up on the republic.

Some time in the future there will be a financial trigger point that will set in motion and series of unstoppable events that will transform the U.S. and the world.

It could be one year, 5yr or 20 years out.

When the event happens everyone will quickly know things will never be the same. We will either restore our Constitutional Republic or decay into a true third world sewer.

The only possibility I see of a somewhat peaceful outcome would be the "Several States" banding together to wholly dissolve the Unconstitutional parts of the Federal government. This requires leaders with a Warrior mentality and a willingness to risk it all.

When people see that financial collapse is happening, they will rally around the Governors and give them added support to move forward with what could be termed "bankruptcy" proceedings against D.C.

I think the trigger point will be the time when the Feds can't control Interest Rates and the resulting accelerating increase in Interest payments.

At some point the Federal leviathan will become insolvent. It will either peaceably be dismantled by the States or turn incredibly violent against the States.

I pray at the moment the "event happens" that there is a President who does not have an ego and willingly allows the States to the right thing.

Remember, it was the States that gave birth to the Federal government. The States are likely the only path to avoid an all our civil war or Revolution.

I think when the so called SHTF that the people will quickly become repulsed by D.C (most now have little faith in D.C) and rally around State solutions.

[LongWayHome]

There will not be a trigger-point for a long time, if ever, cause the powers that be have imported enough third worlders to vote to help raise taxes. You will get a VAT tax & more income taxes & sales taxes & carbon taxes & on & on until we reach European levels of taxes....an then we will get some more taxes & things will drag on. I see no will in the American people to confront our problems, none at all.

[dagogo redux]

The soap box has been corrupted and usurped by the Marxists.

The ballot box has been corrupted and usurped by the Marxists.

Got one box left. Only one.