Posted on 10/19/2012 11:59:50 AM PDT by NTHockey
I visited the Constitution Center in Philadelphia on Wednesday. While on the tour, one of the staff members came up and asked me if I wanted to be President. I said that I was ineligible, since my mother was naturalized after I was born. He argued that since I was born here that I was born here that I was natural.
We went back and forth; he not knowing the difference between native born and natural born and I refusing to back down.
I plan to write the head and tell him that their staff needs to be a) better informed and b) less combative. Comments.
Yes. His regular audience + 3 more. That is until the birthers began speaking at which point half his audience would change the channel.
That's rich. "What the world should be" is literally the motto of birtherism. The United States of America has no legal mechanism to enforce the birther interpretation of natural born. The world is what the world is.
Do you have anything serious that you can add to this discussion or do you think that your little jokes take the place of any intelligent argument on your part?
I must tell you that “What the world should be” is your position, not that of the “Birthers.”
You are the 1%x10^-6
Yes. But I am not going to reply after I make it. I know before I even press submit that no matter what I say, there will be pages of horse-pucky explaining why I am a fools fool who should flog himself with a stupid stick.
Firstly, there have been countless legitimate arguments made against birthers on countless threads. Most reasonable FReepers won't come near these threads with a 10' pole anymore, because they know birthers are nuts. I know you guys like to believe that you are reasonable, but any objective observation of birther threads will show that birthers are intollerant of disbelief in the cult of Vattel.
Since you guys are all smarter than the rest of us, riddle me this...
Stools have legs and stools have seats and any fool knows a stool has 3 or more legs but only one seat. But the birther, when presented with seats of stools and legs of stools, flipped the logic of the world on its end and sat not upon the seat but on the leg, and not once, or twice but thrice for all to see. And who said that "in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen"? Surely not so wise a man as one who would say "of parents who are citizens". Stools which have seats and seats of stools, why I tell you its all nonesense! Every birther knows a stool has two legs and two seats!
How do you presume to apply equal protection under the law given the United States government does not track the citizenship of either parent nonetheless "both" at the time of birth for millions of Americans? No birther wants to have an "intelligent argument" as you put it. Birthers are no different than liberals who claim the 2nd amendment only protects militias.
He was right. Birth on US soil confers 14th Amendment citizenship (unless your parents have diplomatic immunity and are thus not "subject to the jurisdiction"). And, if you are entitled to be a citizen by reason of birth (via the 14th Amendment or otherwise), you are automatically a natural born citizen for purposes of presidential eligibility.
But you still have to run and get elected, of course.
With regard to the last point, the Sheeple made a massive, but entirely Constitutional, mistake in 2008. It will soon be corrected, nattering about 18th century Swiss legal scholars notwithstanding. And then it will be forgotten!
They have purposely created the ignorance by first infiltrating our schools. The Weather Underground temporarily gave up bombs for books. It worked. Pray.
Of course, and anyone who does not understand that does not have a lick of common sense nor the ability to appreciate the common sense of our founding fathers. Idiots.
It is clear to me that you do not have the ability to speak informatively on the issue of what is a “natural born Citizen.” You are on here just throwing around little sound bites. I will not waste my time with you.
“That is until the birthers...”
There you go again, Doug.
Exactly. As his purpose isn't to actually understand the truth, debating with him is a waste of time. I suspect someone very dear to him was born before one of their parents became a citizen, so he regards it as a personal affront to suggest that they are not a "natural" American. He argues from emotion, and with little in the way of reason.
For the record, I’m sincerely disappointed in Mark Levin (and the rest of the conservative commentators). For someone as Constitutionally-knowledgeable as he is supposed to be, his inability to have a civil discussion about natural born citizenship implies there is something else going on that we don’t know about.
I too find it very perplexing that supposedly knowledgeable people intentionally pooh pooh, or avoid any discussion of this subject. The remarkable thing is that two luminaries of the Conservative movement both agree with the underlying premise, but refuse to acknowledge that the theoretical legal foundation which they have laid down in their arguments also encompasses the central tenet of the "birther" argument. Here are George Will and Ann Coulter on the topic of "Anchor Babies."
So they both agree with the "birther" argument in principle, but they just cannot bring themselves to admit it.
On a related point, Fox News was poking around a bit in the Obama birth issue, but I have read that the staff received orders directly from Rupert Murdoch to drop it. The assumption was that he was afraid of the Federal response to his ownership of, and threats to FCC licenses possessed by his Fox News corporation. I don't know if this is true, but I do know that i've read a lot of allegations that Rupert Murdoch himself told Roger Ailes to drop this.
SHE was buried in Wichita Kansas. Her infant sons are buried in Newfoundland Canada.
If it was Pepperrell Air Force Base, that base closed in 1960.
I went back and looked at the links, and I did not see anywhere in there where it mentioned Pepperrell Air Force Base, but I surmise that you are correct none the less. You have produced information of which I had been unaware, and that information tarnishes the theory a bit, though does not destroy it.
Aunt Eleanor was living in Canada in 1959, but according to what you have discovered, she most likely moved elsewhere sometime shortly after that. As it should happen, Radaris used to list several places where she lived, and most of them were in North West Washington State. (Radaris will no longer return any searches on her name. Something has been done to it.)
The information which I had previously gotten from Radaris was that she lived in Blaine Washington. (From other sources I see claims that her Husband went to work for Boeing in the North West Washington area.)
Blaine Washington is right smack dab on the border between Canada and the United States. As it should happen, it shared it's Northern border with the Canadian town of White Rock's Southern Border. They were like twin cities if you will.
Blaine did not have a hospital. White Rock did. If you were having a baby in Blaine, You would need to go to Peace Arch Hospital in White Rock, on the other side of the border.
I found this info on wikipedia, so you can naturally take it with somewhat of a grain of salt, but typically things like this that are easily corrected and relatively non-controversial tend to be pretty accurate on wikipedia. Further, there are several relevant footnotes on this wiki page that might shed some light.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen
“Her infant sons are buried in Newfoundland Canada.”
Am I reading this wrong?
Wichita Evening Eagle, Thursday, January 15, 1959
Funeral Planned For Twin Boys
The twin sons of Airman 2.C. and. Mrs. Richard [Ralph Lee] Berkebile will be buried here in Calvary Cemetery after graveside services Wednesday. Father Joseph Fisher, All Saints Catholic Church, will officiate. The twins were born Jan. 5, in St. John’s, Newfoundland, Canada. Michael Phillip died Monday and Stephan Jerome died on Thursday. They were grandsons of Mr. and Mrs. R. Lee Berkebile, 3920 E. Funston, and Mr. and Mrs. Ralph Dunham, 8635 S. Broadway.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=34580925
This is from the Wichita Evening Eagle for January 15, 1959 and it says burial “here in Calvary Cemetery after graveside services Wednesday.” At the bottom of the page it says Calvary Cemetery is in Wichita, Kansas.
I assumed Pepperrell Air Force Base (I should have put a question mark after it) based on the fact the he was an Airman 2 Class and everything was happening in St. John’s where Pepperrell AFB was located.
Frankly, I think you can drop the whole Newfoundland line of inquiry and stick with the Blaine, Washington line.
I missed this in the first line of Eleanor’s find-a-grave article you linked to in post 94.
“Ashes buried near infant twin sons, Stephen and Michael according to family. Married to Ralph Lee Berkebile.”
So definitely the three of them are buried in Wichita, Kansas.
But like I said in previous post I don’t think the Newfoundland info is relevant.
The CRS report has been discredited.
I have read the CRS Maskell 2011 memo. He basically says that a “natural born Citizen” is a “born Citizen.” If that is the case, the Founders and Framers would have said so but they did not. Mr. Maskell offers a manipulated and tortured journey through historical sources and case law which does not prove his thesis.
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