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Dropping Atomic Bombs on Japan Was Imperative
Self | August 10, 2012 | Self

Posted on 08/10/2012 11:02:37 AM PDT by Retain Mike

We now mark the 67th anniversary of dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end WW II. The generations which developed the information and made the decisions for World War II, including dropping the atomic bombs on Japan, have passed away. The generation which faced the tragic violence required for carrying out those decisions is rapidly leaving us. As this personal knowledge becomes ever rarer, we must listen increasingly to revisionist contra-factual analyses as they expound on what a needless, tragic and profoundly immoral decision the United States had made.

In support of dropping the atomic bombs historians often cite the inevitability of horrifying casualties, if troops had landed on the home islands. They extrapolate from 48,000 American and 230,000 Japanese losses on Okinawa to estimates of 500,000 American and millions of Japanese casualties for mainland invasions. However, even these optimistic figures arise from studies preceding the unfolding recognition of American experiences on Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Such estimates could have vastly understated casualties, because Japan at 374,000 mountainous square miles mathematically enables over 500 defensive redoubts; fortifications comparable to that General Ushijima constructed to inflict most losses At Okinawa. This rapid increase in killing efficiency extended to planned stubborn defenses of their major cities just as the Germans had maintained in Berlin. The American “island hopping” strategy had ended, because the Japanese had determined the few regions within their mountainous country that could accommodate the huge armies and air forces needed. Harry Truman contemplated increasingly dire estimates causing him to reflect on the possibility of “an Okinawa from one end of Japan to the other”.

The Japanese War Faction maintained the lavish standard of 20 million Japanese deaths for planning final mainland battles; battles intended to inflict millions of casualties, and to convince America to abandon the Potsdam Declaration. The Japanese had concealed vastly underestimated quantities of kamikazes and aviation fuel, redeployed veteran Kwantung divisions, mobilized home defense armies, and distributed suicide bombs and bamboo spears to civilians become soldiers.

Americans also faced biological warfare. Occupation searchers uncovered large stockpiles of viruses, spirochetes, and fungus spores throughout rural Japan. These biological pathogens had already been tested on Chinese civilians. For Japan one delivery system directed citizen soldiers to infect themselves and stay behind the advancing troops.

The Greatest Generation and their parents would have been enraged to discover a cabal had ignored the nuclear option for ending the war just to indulge some personal moral orthodoxy. If there was any alternative, Harry Truman, Henry Stimson, and George Marshall were not about to procure the deaths of countless Americans in protracted ground campaigns following amphibious assaults exceeding D-Day.

The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into utter physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting Hirohito reluctantly invited Barron Hiranuma, who had fiercely disapproved the war strategy. Hiranuma maintained the Emperor’s spiritual essence was independent of any imposed government. He reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer, but remained unyielding.

At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the “Voice of the Crane” in the 30’ by 18’ sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.

Here was demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual three dimensional fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foresaw the probability of defeat and had appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths. The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.

Another point says the bombs accomplished little. Supposedly Roosevelt’s decree of unconditional surrender was compromised away by allowing Japan to keep their Emperor. However by accepting the Potsdam Declaration, Japan abandoned the militarism that had committed the country to Asian conquest. The Emperor’s and the government’s authority became subject to the Supreme Allied Commander. Their authority was later subject to the Japanese people’s free expression for determining post war government that eradicated multi-millennial Imperial characteristics.

The moral failure to leave an Imperial Japan undefeated to prosecute a nuclear war generations hence was intolerable. The expectation of continuing 400,000 civilian and military deaths throughout Asia while diplomats dithered was intolerable. Allowing a blockade to operate interminably, while deferring to the War Faction any decision about whether Japanese and allied prisoner deaths met their 20 million standard was intolerable. Allowing the premeditated ignorance of revisionists center stage as the institutional knowledge of the Greatest Generation dies away is intolerable.


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: atomicbomb; japan; vanity; wwii
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To: Little Ray
Right. Tell me again where the soviets would get the sealift capacity to invade Japan, land troops, and keep them supplied?

An excellent debate point. That's what I'm looking for.

41 posted on 08/10/2012 3:08:40 PM PDT by zipper (espions sur les occupants)
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To: Leaning Right

My first reaction is it wouldn’t have worked, because it didn’t, but I asked my son who dealt with this issue in a debate for his input also. Japan had already experienced two actual nuclear detonations and the War Faction remained intransigent. Remember they had already experienced firebombing of 60 cities. The first raid on Tokyo destroyed 20 square miles and killed more people than either bomb. From their behavior the Japanese leadership seemed comfortable with incomprehensible death figures.

After Hirohito recorded his broadcast to the Japanese people there was still an attempt to capture him and destroy the records that were to be used in the radio broadcast.

I think a demonstration would have been meaningful to Westerners but not the Japanese. Here is a letter to the editor I wrote that speaks to the issue,

Japan’s Intransigent Leaders Actuated the Atomic Bombs

Arriving at VJ day demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foreseeing the probability of defeat, appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths.

The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting Hirohito reluctantly invited Barron Hiranuma, who had fiercely disapproved the war strategy. Hiranuma maintained the Emperor’s spiritual essence was independent of any imposed government. He reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians, and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer, but remained unyielding.

At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the “Voice of the Crane” in the sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.

The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.


42 posted on 08/10/2012 3:10:17 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: SES1066
In August of 1945 my Grandfather was wasting away in a Hitachi copper mine on mainland Japan. Guards set up machine guns in the camp and told them they would be killed the moment American forces landed on Japanese mainland soil.

My response to the morons who bemoan us dropping the bomb is that it was worth it if it saved ONE American, and I KNOW non-hypothetically it saved at least one, him. This shot is of him and Grandmother at POW ball in 1947.

He was in captivity for 3.5 years (he ended up staying in the Navy for a total of about 32.5 years). Both passed away in 2006/2007 and are laid to rest in Arlington.

43 posted on 08/10/2012 3:22:22 PM PDT by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: caver

you are sooo right. The ratio is OK because both my maps are in kilometers, but I really messed up. Thank you.


44 posted on 08/10/2012 3:31:12 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: Retain Mike

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense that Sayle would have made that point then, since as you point out that was a mainstream Japanese view. As I said, Sayle lived in Japan for 30 years — up to 2002. I’m sure he sympathized with them, as most mainstream, popular journalists do with our enemies. Sayle also interviewed mass murderer Che Guevara at one point, and even Kim Philby, and though I haven’t read the interviews, I’ll bet they were sympathetic, especially with Che Guevara.

From my own experiences I agree the Japanese want to portray themselves as innocent victims, completely. I visited the Hiroshima Peace Park and I can tell you there isn’t the slightest reference to Japanese militarism or aggression. The bombings are portrayed as bolt-out-of-the-blue atrocities, on a par with the Holocaust.

I’ll have to read up more on the “final battles” debate and preparations by the Japanese. Your point that they didn’t prepare for a Soviet invasion is a strong argument against their mythical fear of the Soviets, among other points.

There was a book about the Japanese nascent nuclear bomb effort — can’t recall the title. I have it at home, but now I’m traveling. You may already know of it.


45 posted on 08/10/2012 3:31:45 PM PDT by zipper (espions sur les occupants)
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To: G-Bear
I have always thought that it was a damn shame the we only had two atomic bombs to drop on Japan in 1945.

Did (does? -- if he's still alive) your father have enduring contempt for the Japanese, and what did he think of MacArthur?

46 posted on 08/10/2012 3:44:57 PM PDT by zipper (espions sur les occupants)
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To: Retain Mike

Hey, no problem. That durned metric system will get you every time! I figured it was probably square kilometers. Good article, none the less. I’m a WWII buff, so I already knew the details, but still good for the uninformed.


47 posted on 08/10/2012 6:04:03 PM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: Retain Mike
Given the intransigence of the Japanese government (and,perhaps,of many of her people as well) Truman had no easy options.Of all the ugly options that he had available to him my understanding of history convinces me that he took the least ugly of them.
48 posted on 08/11/2012 7:52:32 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Word Is Out,Harry Reid's Into Child Porn.Release All Your Photos,Harry!)
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To: G-Bear
I have always thought that it was a damn shame the we only had two atomic bombs to drop on Japan in 1945.

My father was a Marine at Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Saipan, and was scheduled for the invasion of Japan. So add me to the list of those who might not even be here except for the atomic bombs.

Truman did exactly what he had to do...no more,and no less.For him to have inadequately dealt with the Japanese government and military,thus unnecessarily prolonging the war,it could have been said that he had the blood of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians on his hands.OTOH,taking your course...exacting vengeance upon the Japanese...would have been equally immoral.If not criminal.

49 posted on 08/11/2012 8:06:03 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Word Is Out,Harry Reid's Into Child Porn.Release All Your Photos,Harry!)
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To: Leaning Right

Apparently the demonstration in Hiroshima wasn’t enough to end the war. Would a demonstration in an unpopulated location have done the trick?


50 posted on 08/11/2012 8:19:22 AM PDT by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: Gay State Conservative

I broke this post into several letters. This year I sent the below one to about 40 different places. People either can’t or refuse to understand the pervasive Japanese mentality of the time. When Hirohito decided enough was enough the whole people from the home islands to Burma complyed. Otherwise they were prepared to participate in an unspeakable slaugther.

From: Retain Mike
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:57 AM
To: WSJ Letters (wsj.ltrs@wsj.com)
Subject: Japan’s Intransigence Brought Forth Atomic Bombs

Arriving at VJ day demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foreseeing the probability of defeat, appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths.

The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting Hirohito reluctantly invited Barron Hiranuma, who had fiercely disapproved the war strategy. Hiranuma maintained the Emperor’s spiritual essence was independent of any imposed government. He reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians, and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer, but remained unyielding.

At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the “Voice of the Crane” in the sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.

The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.


51 posted on 08/12/2012 5:09:05 AM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: dfwgator
It’s scary to think that in a few generations when they teach history, the only things they’ll mention about WWII will be:

It might be even worse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DueSvcjn810

52 posted on 08/12/2012 5:18:28 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
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To: BushMeister
Complementary article to Frank's book (written by Frank himself, where he basically consenses the important points can be here


53 posted on 08/12/2012 5:24:16 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: SES1066
I was sitting with my Father and mentioned about this being the anniversary of the Nagasaki A-Bomb. He was a Captain in the 45th ID [ETO since Sicily Invasion with 4 Amphibious Landings] who had advanced warning for assignment to PTO for the Japanese Invasion. With his experience with amphibious landings, his feeling was that he would have been 1st or 2nd wave in the invasion. His opinion was and is that these A-Bombs saved his life and nothing said or written since has changed that viewpoint.

Same is true of my late Grandfather. He was a Combat Engineer officer with experience ranging from Overlord, Cobra through The Bulge and the end of the war. He was too valuable to send home (I think he actually had his points) so was in Antwerp (I think) with orders to the Pacific and just waiting on a troopship to take him there when the Bombs were dropped.

The troopship took him to NYC instead. My Mother was born in July. I've made it a point to take my kids to the Smithsonian (Udvar-Hazy out at Dulles) on several August 6ths, let them see the Enola Gay and the self righteous, p*ssant protesters that always show up and then tell them my grandfather's story (in a slightly raised, serious tone within clear earshot of the protesters) and let them know that the protesters aren't just protesting the bombs but their existence, my existence and their grandmother's existence.

I'll tell you this: the Smithsonian has definitely learned it's lesson from the whole Enola Gay fiasco in the 1990s. When the tours reach the Enola Gay they have their best guy (Retired USAF Col. Scott Willey) standing there to take over the tour. The way he handles the protesters (they infiltrate the tour groups) is truly outstanding, responding to their moral and hyper-emotional outrage with clear, concise and respectful recitation of the facts of the matter and in doing so shreds their positions. I'll tell you something else as well, the last few times I've gone the counter-protesters have outnumbered the p*ssants by about a 5-1 ratio.
54 posted on 08/12/2012 6:10:31 AM PDT by tanknetter
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