LIVE THREAD: President Roosevelt’s Address to Nation on America’s Progress in the War (2/23/42)

http://millercenter.org ^ | 2/23/42

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Use the link here.
Click on the Audio button on the right. Transcript is on the left.

[Homer_J_Simpson]

Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread

[Homer_J_Simpson]

“Tell that to the Marines!” ping.

3 minutes to 10.

[Springman]

Interesting read bump. I also read the New York Times everyday thanks to you.

[henkster]

Gee Mr. President; I didn’t know Alaska was so big.

[sasportas]

When I read his arguments against the isolationists, calling them ostriches instead of eagles, turtles, I thought immediately of Wrong Paul and the libertarians. ostriches and turtles fits them to a tee.

[henkster]

He seems a little sensitive on the rumors of how bad Pearl Harbor really was. I don’t know that the true loss has been reported yet, but he is certainly scoffing at exaggerated figures to soften the blow when he discloses the real figures.

[fso301]

(1.) First, in such a case, we could no longer send aid of any kind to China – to the brave people who, for nearly five years, have withstood Japanese assault, destroyed hundreds of thousands of Japanese soldiers and vast quantities of Japanese war munitions. It is essential that we help China in her magnificent defense and in her inevitable counteroffensive – for that is one important element in the ultimate defeat of Japan.

FDR not only supported China, he also supported Japan until Aug 1941.

[henkster]

I don’t know how he could talk about China’s “magnificent defense.” They aren’t putting up a fight at all.

[fso301]

I don’t know how he could talk about China’s “magnificent defense.” They aren’t putting up a fight at all.

The Chinese were fighting two enemies. The Nationalist Chinese fought the Japanese and Communists. The Communists fought the Nationalist Chinese and Japan.

[henkster]

There is a very good discussion of China’s “war effort” in Barbara Tuchman’s “Stillwell and the American Experience in China”. Chaing wasn’t interested in fighting Japan. He wanted us to do it for him.

[fso301]

There is a very good discussion of China’s “war effort” in Barbara Tuchman’s “Stillwell and the American Experience in China”. Chaing wasn’t interested in fighting Japan. He wanted us to do it for him.

Thanks. I'll look for that book. Not too long ago, I attended a talk given by a surviving member of the Sino-American Cooperative Organization (SACO). He served in the unit from 1943 until 1945. He said China was divided deeply along more than just the Nationalist-Communist line. When he arrived in China, the Nationalists were beset with all manner of disunity and were not good fighters at all. He said that changed by the end of the war.

He said the Communists were as good as the Japanese and you had to treat them as being only a little less adversarial than the Japanese.

[henkster]

It was from that book I first heard the Chinese proverb “we can always fool the foreigner”. Any American who thinks about doing business with the Chinese should read this book first. There is a term for an American who does business with them: “Fool”.

[iowamark]

Barbara Tuchman was a Communist. It should be no surprise to anyone that she wanted to see anti-communist Chinese killed, as some 50 million were. It is, however, shocking that you would post such agit-prop on FR.

Barbara Tuchman:
In a country where misery and want were the foundation of the social structure, famine was periodic, death from starvation common, disease pervasive, thievery normal, and graft and corruption taken for granted, the elimination of these conditions in Communist China is so striking that negative aspects of the new rule fade in relative importance.

[toddausauras]

“The enemy wants the American Eagle to imitate the tactics of the ostrich”. I love how people talked back then. This is great to listen to. His smokers cough acts up once in awhile.

[CougarGA7]

The Chinese Communists didn’t fight the Japanese very much. What they did do during this time was pay lip service to fighting Japan while at the same time keeping as low a profile as they could. While this was going on they were actually buying arms from the Japanese puppet governments in Northern China.

Some of this is being made possible by a secret agreement between the Soviet Union, and Japan dating back to October 3rd, 1940. According to documents from the Japanese Foreign Ministry archives in Tokyo this agreement stated that “the USSR will abandon its active support for Jiang [Jieshi] and will repress the Chinese Communists Party’s anti-Japanese activities; in exchange, Japan recognizes and accepts that the Chinese Communist Party will retain as a base the three northwest provinces [Shaanxi, Gansu, and Ningxia].”

The war will be a time of great expansion for the CCP which will set the stage for the eventual defeat of the GMD and their evacuation to Taiwan.

[henkster]

Tuchman may have been a communist, but when was the last time you were surprised that a communist was wrong in their belief that communism would transform a society for the better? Take away her naive opinion of communism, and you are left with her very accurate assessment of Chinese character and society, which remains today. When it comes to dealing with foreigners (and that means us, folks) they are corrupt amoral bastards who only want to screw us barbarians. That attitude hasn’t changed for thousands of years.