Posted on 01/31/2012 10:11:22 AM PST by servo1969
A Montara man walking two lapdogs off leash was hit with an electric-shock gun by a National Park Service ranger after allegedly giving a false name and trying to walk away, authorities said Monday.
The park ranger encountered Gary Hesterberg with his two small dogs Sunday afternoon at Rancho Corral de Tierra, which was recently incorporated into the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, said Howard Levitt, a spokesman for the park service.
Hesterberg, who said he didn't have identification with him, allegedly gave the ranger a false name, Levitt said.
The ranger, who wasn't identified, asked Hesterberg to remain at the scene, Levitt said. He tried several times to leave, and finally the ranger "pursued him a little bit and she did deploy her" electric-shock weapon, Levitt said. "That did stop him."
--snip--
The ranger was trying to educate residents of the rule, Levitt said.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
Um, WHAT?
Do you think the police should be allowed to go around shocking every jaywalker and loiterer, too?
It’s an interesting facet about humans and our behavior. As long as the loss we experience is less than value of what we keep then we will complain bitterly and then go no further, (Usually!). But when we feel that there is nothing left to lose then we will turn and fight until only we or our oppressor is still amongst the living. The question here of course is at what point does fighting back overcome the fear of losing everything?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586581,00.html
http://www.disclose.tv/forum/ohio-man-angry-at-banks-irs-bulldozes-house-t16578.html
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20060613043352326
Precisely. So how about you and I join forces to make the reality more right?
Annoyingly tedious and difficult, using the system, but it is the only way, short of being “actively involved” during a detainment or arrest, and then suing where there are grounds. So make our voices heard by calling people and complaining to Congress-people, blah, blah. That’s a sad reality, too. I feel it’ll get much worse before it gets better.
If suspected of a violation (even a minor one like walking an unleashed dog) you must provide identification if/when asked.
Agree, it’s a minor infraction, but once observed and stopped by the Ranger you must provide proper ID if requested. Failing to do so raises the ante unnecessarily.
Providing false ID is not at all problematic, it’s wrong and it’s illegal. Now we’re out of the civil infraction category.
Citizens in our society are obligated to follow the directions of appointed authorities...even it they think them wrong. There were witnesses present, he could have waited it out and brought charges later. Sounds to me like he knew he screwed up with the false name and was trying to get himself out of it by leaving.
If we allow citizens to determine when a an order becomes unlawful we’d have anarchy in the streets.
Besides....only illegal aliens are not required to show correct identification.
“Women thug cops often use any excuse to use their weapons. They know they can use them more often because they are generally smaller and weaker and therefore have built-in excuses to use them where a male officer couldn’t.”
I got my degree in law enforcement from Cops University, on Fox TV channel. One episode had a gang of large male cops piling on to a rather husky gentleman and he was wearing down. Circling the pack was a small woman cop with her taser out screaming, “I’m gonna taser him! Let me taser him!” There were ten hands on the fella and all of them would have shared the shock. Luckily someone told her no and they got everything worked out.
On an older pre-taser era episode, another pile of male cops were sorting out an active person on the ground and the lady cop leaned in and doused everyone with pepper spray. Thanks a million, ma’am.
“The question here of course is at what point does fighting back overcome the fear of losing everything?”
Hopefully before it comes to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2ZhQrWQj7k
Also, the witness doesn’t dispute the fact that the man walked away when being told to stay. If a law enforcement officer tells you to wait, you wait.
***************************************************
If there was no signage at the park to indicate that the ranger had jurisdiction I’d walk too ,, same as if she tried to detain me at a shopping mall or in my own yard ... no jurisdiction.
Leaving aside those legalities, this is also a PR black eye.
Something that wasn't discovered or admitted to until AFTER the tazing.
The only comment that I have is that the Ranger didn't seem to be properly trained before walking the trail. She seemed to be radioing in for instructions as to what to do next, thereby losing control of the situation.
Well, I would say--without putting a number on it since I don't have that number--a significant number of them are thuggish. It comes with the personality of a person who wants to be an LEO. Controlling other people is built into that personality.
Just my opinion.
Why any American still thinks that they live under a limited government of laws, not men, is beyond me. That there is even a debate about the arbitrary tasering of non-compliant ccitizens is chilling.
American-style Socialism is metastasizing under the Obama regime - and no viable Republican alternative seems ready to combat that. At every level of government, violent over-reaction to perceived disrespect has become endemic.
There is no particular reason to be optimistic about the immediate future.
>So do I, Sparky.<
Heh, Sparky. What an appropriate use of the name.
But then of course, we expect nothing less of the one and only Laz.
>If I have Reasonable Suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur,<
But in this case there’s some dork with a couple of little anklebiters he’s neglected to leash.
Come on, if that’s what you or your fellow officers consider a “crime”, we’re in a heap o’ trouble. The citizen complied with the leash rule once he was informed of the requirement. The ranger admitted she was there to educate. “Education” does not usually entail tasers in a free society.
Either you are confused or you read a different story...
He was stopped for walking his unleashed dogs. No big deal.
But when asked for an ID he then provided a false name. This is no longer in the category of a civil offense.
Then, when when given a lawful order to remain at the site, he attempted to leave. Not smart.
Say a cop stops you in the street for jaywalking. How long can he or she keep you there? Is the order to "Don't go anywhere" still lawful after an hour? What about five hours? How about 24 hours?
There is a limit, beyond which the order to "stay put" is no longer a lawful order. Also, if a police officer is detaining you, he or she is legally obligated to inform you that he or she is detaining you in response to a direct query.
Our perp in this case may not be a hero, but the cop is no hero either.
You’re focusing on the wrong point....
The issue us not why he was stopped (although it was totally legit) but what he did afterwards.
Giving the Ranger a false name elevated the issue from a minor civil matter to any number of more serious charges.
Attempting to leave when told not to just aggravated the situation. I don’t know if use of the Tazer was warranted but if he refused an order to stop three times as reported could be the Ranger felt she had no other option.
Are you going to let the word of a trained and experienced Ranger be overridden by a mere citizen?
</sarcasm>
No. But ya gotta let the boot lickers spread spittle. The rest of us will stand upright. ;-)
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