Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

To: RummyChick
As I stated, the translated letter written by Raphael stated he was experimenting on both Cambric and Byssus... but he did not state what the self-portrait he was forwarding to Dürer was on... just that it was one of his transparent efforts. Whether this one is his or not is irrelevant. The number of congruencies is. There are only the number of congruencies one gets with ANY face when compared, male or female, with the Shroud face image IS. The SIZES are not even comparable. The only researcher who claimed it is the same as the Shroud is a pious nun who compared PHOTOGRAPHS of both... using a ruler and made no attempt to assure that both photographs were true life-size representations of the originals. When this is done, they do not match.

As I pointed out, the image on the Shroud has a full mustache and beard, the image on the Manoppello veil has a wispy mustache only at the corners of the mouth and a wispy beard... the beard of a younger man. Are you seriously proposing that Jesus, stopped for shave on the Via Delarosa, then grew a full beard and mustache after making the Veronica before being buried in the tomb? That is an absurd proposition to make. Either the Shroud image with its full beard is wrong or the Manoppello veil is NOT an image of Christ on the way to the cross. It can't be both.

AND, as I have pointed out multiple times, the pigments on the Manoppello veil are EASILY seen on microphotographs where ever there is image. It is a painting. Painted by whom is irrelevant.

I think, not believe, because of the over 60 congruencies with the face of Raphael, fewer than 40 with Dürer's face, and only six - seven with the Shroud's, that it is most likely the self portrait that Raphael sent to Dürer that we know of from the letters I read, in which he spoke of painting on either Byssus or cambric. That remains up in the air... to be determined when the Church authorities allow it to be dismounted from the double-sided glass and examined properly.

58 posted on 12/25/2011 12:55:35 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft product "insult" free zone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies ]


To: Swordmaker

You are missing a very important fact.

The imprint on the shroud is discussed by scientists as being formed in certain ways (light as he was rising, etc). These ways would not have caused the imprint for a brief moment on a veil of Veronica.

Therefore, whatever imprint, should it have been of Jesus - would be a intervention of God. Who is to say it has to be exact????????????????????????????????????????

There are similarities that go above matching just any man INCLUDING Raphael. Show me a self portrait of Raphael with a forked beard or even a thin wispy mustache.

Tell me why the images on the Manoppello veil do not mirror each other on each side - such as the lock of hair?

http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/jaworski.pdf

I cannot find a single reference about a letter that Raphael wrote saying he was doing a self-portrait transparent painting on Byssus as the term is used today or cambric. Many many art historians have written about Raphael. The only reference you remember is from a book in 1936. Why does no one else reference this exchange of letters about the technique- not even the book by his student Romano????

I can imagine Raphael getting a painting from Durer done just as the examples I have shown that are still in museums.They don’t look like the Veil. I can also imagine Raphael being so impressed with it that he attempted the technique himself. . I cannot imagine Raphael experimenting on a piece of cloth so rare that it was reserved for royalty and sending it to Durer. Who would have given him such a thing just to experiment on a self portrait?? The Catholic Church, perhaps. But perhaps he experimented on the more generic term used for byssus which meant a fine cloth.

That is still not to say that someone didn’t paint this on byssus as the term is used today but it is important to be as accurate as possible. I can’t imagine a self-portrait on a cloth that is as expensive as you say being sent to Durer. And I sure can’t find a forked beard on Raphael. Btw, he was a better painter that what is on the Veil.

As for pigment, again NOT EVERY RESEARCHER AGREES ABOUT THE PIGMENT...including the chemical analysis that I posted that was one on byssal strands.

I can’t find a single portrait of Raphael that has that wisp of hair at the top. Interesting enough, Durer looking like Jesus self portrait does have a wisp at the hair line.


60 posted on 12/25/2011 6:01:54 PM PST by RummyChick (It's a Satan Sandwich with Satan Fries on the side - perfect for Obama 666)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson