Posted on 12/18/2011 10:06:54 AM PST by no gnu taxes
I'm talking about the old multiplication and long division calculation methods. I know what you are probably thinking. That I am some public school advocate, even though I was pissed as hell when my kindergarten daughter asked me if I knew the happy kwanzaa song.
But are these really useful anymore? I mean you can buy a calculator for $1 that does all these things and the software developers didn't use those methods for creation of the devices. Did you even understand why these algorithms worked at the time you were taught them?
Not trying to be controversial; just want to know what you think.
Give an example of "rote algorithm."
“We’re not teaching the slide rule anymore, but that’s because it’s no longer needed.”
I still have one in my truck that I have used for over 50 years, still works and doesn’t require a battery!
The devices are a series of electronic switches. The developers had to talk to them in a language the microprocessors understand -- binary. But the algorithms they used for those devices are the same kids are taught.
Did you even understand why these algorithms worked at the time you were taught them?
Why they "worked?" They worked because they couldn't do otherwise! And you don't need to understand WHY they work anymore than you need to understand Bernoulli's Principle to take an airplane flight. If, however, you don't know that they exist and the batteries run down on your calculator, you are helpless.
Schoolwork builds brain power just like weights build muscles.
It’s no accident that elite schools still teach Greek and trig. It’s not the facts, it’s the effort.
No. And to prove my point, I want you to mail me $2 per day for the next five years in payment for my reply. This is a very reasonable sum, don’t you think? Just $2.
You do realize that all thinking involves algorithms, right?
I guess you're basically saying that thinking is obsolete, other than thinking about things like the Kardashians.
IMO, children should always learn the basics first. No calculators until they can do simple math in their heads.
Everyone should be aware that a missed key-stroke on a calculator can be expected at any time.
Critical thinking skills require independent analysis of data, and that means in math as well as any science.
Absolutely correct. I was with a field chemistry class and the students were measuring water quality parameters. They had a pretty good idea about the kind of values to expect, but when they reported one value off by several magnitudes nobody even flinched. So I asked, “What is a reasonable value for this measurement?”, they all pretty much knew and when they thought about it the light went on. Now we've got a bunch of speculation: plant toxins, pollutants, dead animal upstream, etc. Nobody ever hit on the most obvious (and correct) answer - the meter is broken.
And you are right on about the economic bias...
Oh wow, I remember that story from high school.
You’ll take my slide rule and abacus from my cold dead hands! Seriously the method needs understood first before the simplifying tools are provided. I can’t tell you how many times ive had to backtrack to find input/calculation errors in formulas that the calculator or computer were happy to spit out. It is similar to spellcheck skipping words that are improper grammatically but spelled correctly. Kids need to understand the ideas and processes first.
Where to start? I do not agree.
I’m in my early 50s and I’m the only one of my peers who took Latin in HS. And I didn’t know they quit teaching trig - guess I was born too soon...
Definitely!
Log tables and knowing how to use them saved me during a high school physics make-up quiz that I had to ace to graduate-frequent fishing & beer related truancy involved!
My vintage 1976 VHS-tape sized TI calculator died but the log tables in the back of my “College Math” remedial text book saved the day.
Mr. Restall gave me extra credit, the quiz paper showed my work up to the point the battery died and then how I switched methods.
Bad idea. You need to know how to do basic addition, subtraction, and multiplication in your head, because there are times when your pocket calculator or computer isn’t handy. And because they are a part of mental training.
Not most of them, not at the beginning, but with use comes understanding. It's important to teach the algorithm through rote memorization if necessary and then work examples till it sinks in. We learn most of our abstract concepts this way.
I learned the difference quotient as a part of algebra without any idea what it was used for. When I hit calculus and found out it was to calculate derivatives, I was thrilled. I already knew how!
It's stylish these days among "educators" who couldn't give you a definition of the word "concept" if their tenure depended on it to insist that children must understand what they're learning and therefore teaching them the algorithms is not conceptual.
It's rubbish. Man took thousands upon thousands of years to develop these algorithms. It's our responsibility to pass them along to the young. Wasting their time re-inventing the wheel will result in a severely stunted education.
"That's what Greeks are for."
I like that :) Pretty good short story
Good for you. I took first-year Latin and then switched to French. To this day, I wish I'd have taken all 4 years offered. I think Trig is still taught, but in New York at least, it's rolled in with Algebra II -- which makes some sense.
I could not agree more! Witness people bemoaning the fact that half the population is below average!
Everyone should be aware that a missed key-stroke on a calculator can be expected at any time.
Critical thinking skills require independent analysis of data, and that means in math as well as any science.”
Bingo... Couldn't agree more...
Math is not just mechanics but also a state of mind so to speak. Manual math skills are critical even if your most complex task is balancing the checkbook or looking at the ATM balance and determining if I spend $XX more, I will have so many $$$ left till payday.
The state of mind aspect really comes into gear if you go into a math intensive field such as sciences, engineering or some corners of business. You must learn these mechanical basics to even know what to plug into your calculator or program. And, keep in mind that someone has to write the program in the first place. Once, I found an equation and math method in a textbook and things were working out screwy. The book had the author's name and bio in the front pages. I just called up the university and asked to speak with him. Turned out that the book info was incorrect and it was supposed to be fixed in the next printing. If I had been emitted in capability to pushing numbers on the calculator instead of being able to wrap myself into the entire process then a several million $$$ design error easily could have been the result.
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