Great Danes and other “attack dogs” would be euthanized under Cumberland County ban

Ohmidog! ^ | December 5, 2011 | jwoestendiek

[Salamander]

When they did their ep on Ibizan Hounds, they did *not* mention that -only- people -very- experienced with “primitive breeds” should even dare consider getting one.

Their needs are so far beyond and different from “normal dogs” that any dog purchased by novices after that show aired is probably dead from “misadventure”, by now.

When Bunny won the Westminster BOG and made it to the BOS ring 2 years in a row and put the breed in the limelight, the demand for Ibizans sky-rocketed and breeders were forced to tell those who thought they’d “just die if they didn’t get one!” the cold hard facts.

Some breeders [the greeders, specifically] did sell dogs to novices and we had an insane amount of them get abandoned and/or turn up shortly after in kill shelters.

I spent a fortune in supplies creating artwork for auctions held to rescue those dogs.

Dogs 101 often preforms an immense disservice to the breeds they feature by “omitting” harsh but necessary truths.

[Salamander]

God bless you for not perpetuating the anatomical misery foisted onto a truly great breed solely for the sake of of “show fashion”.

Ironically, US Dobe breeders are currently importing a lot of Euro Dobes in order to “correct” the physical/health flaws they created by wrecking the short-backed, stocky Dobe and turning it into an “elegant” elongated, over-angulated “show pony”.

I bought Euro and will only buy Euro until I die.

[Salamander]

That’s -exactly- what GSDs were *supposed* look like, originally.

She’s perfection, IMO.

They were originally straight-backed, squarish, being only *slightly* longer than tall and of hard, lean build to perform their primary function, which was herding.

A long backed, long hocked dog simply cannot turn and twist fast enough to herd squirrely sheep or cattle.

Form followed function...and still should.

The Belgian Malinois is what GSDs ~should~ look like, on a slightly smaller scale.

Most people are unaware that the breed’s origial name was the Alsatian.

They originated in the Alsace region of -France- and are *not* a “German” breed at all.

Ironically, the *French* Poodle ~is~ of German origin.

[Altariel]

I’ll take your word on that. Out of curiosity, what were the flaws in the doberman episode.

[Altariel]

Beautiful Shepherd!

I understand that in order to get that quality of German Shepherd today, you need to seek out the European bloodlines. Is my understanding correct?

[Salamander]

OMG...the list is endless.

“Wobbler's syndrome” which most people think comes from breeding an “elegant, swan-like neck” which can't support a heavy head and causes the dog's spine and cervical vertebrae to become misaligned, causing a drunken, wobbling gait that *may* be corrected by expensive, dangerous surgery.
[they fuse the weak cervical vertebrae, in essence]

Hip dysplasia from the over-angulated rear ends.
[same as GSDs]

Dilated cardio-myopathy possibly from “over sizing” the breed.

Males were originally 28”/females 26” tall -max- and now Dobes of that size are considered ‘small’.

My dogs lived to be 13-14, easily but now if they make it to 10 without dropping of heart failure, it's considered a miracle.

There's now a DCM DNA test to see if your Dobe has the first -known- gene that causes DCM and through reading the posted results and studying the positive dog's bloodlines, it's painfully obvious which dogs brought this horror into the breed....yet those "famous champion" dogs, ~posthumously~, are *still* siring litters via artificial insemination...and the owners of those tubes of death -know- it but they get $1000 and up for each ‘straw’ of killer sperm.
[yes, that enrages me beyond all reason]

“Missing” teeth which came from elongating the original medium-lengthed blunt-wedge skull.

Shoulder dysplasia from overdoing the total angulation of the dog.

*Loads* of skin issues from breeding the “colored” Dobes which are dilute mutation of the original Black & Rust dogs.
[”Blues” and “Fawns” most affected..some countries still ban those colors from the show ring]

Hypothyroidism is now the “norm”.

There are so many other health issues that I can't bear to post them all.

It breaks my heart to even sit and ponder them all.

I've been ‘in the breed’ so long that I've had the sorrow of watching a formerly robust, almost obnoxiously healthy breed decline, right before my very eyes.

In case you're wondering, Odin tested -negative- for the DCM gene.

When I got the results in my email inbox, it was an hour before I could stand to open the PDF and read them.

When I finally did, I wept like damn fool...with relief.

Some here do understand the irrational depth of my love for this silly dog and rejoiced with me.

And, any GSD owner who's had to put down a 2 or 3 year old -pup- for _hip dysplasia_ will understand my rage.

[Texan5]

The problem with any TV show that touts specific breeds of pet animal, be it cat, dog, horse of anything else, is that the boom in sales of the featured breed(s) causes what you refer to-the death and abandonment of those pets by ignorant and disenchanted owners who didn’t comprehend that a “designer pet” is still one of God’s living breathing creatures, and not a damn handbag or sweater.

Since I have a cat-loving indoor Husky, I foster cats for the local animal welfare league, usually in winter. One of my own former shelter cats, a Maine Coon that I fostered several years ago was found roaming in the woods near a boat launch in the park by a game warden-the cat was starving (weighed less than 8 pounds, and bones showing), injured and nearly hairless, but neutered-so not a stray.

The owner turned out to be a crazy woman who had been given the cat by a boyfriend who brought it to her from New Hampshire. She’d read that the breed was hardy and cold tolerant, and since she didn’t want animals in her house she tossed him outside to fend for himself among the raccoons, coyotes and other predators. Today, that charcoal gray tabby weighs over 20 pounds, has a long, lush coat like a Maine Coon should and is a happy member of my family. I wish that all purebred pets came with disclaimers attached to their collars by the breeders-especially the wild-natured dogs, and horses that need protection in a hotter climate than what they are bred to, like some of the large European draft horses that are popular here as self-propelled lawn ornaments. Maybe someday, in a perfect world...

[birddog]

It is sad to see any breed decline. That is the reason I got into Shilohs. GSD are in such bad shape, I wanted a big healthy dog that wasn’t going to fall apart. Fixing the hips was one of the main goals of creating the breed. My older girl is almost 3 and her PennHip measurements were .27 on both hips. That is crazy tight. She is 27 inches tall and weighs 80lbs. And she is on the small side. The males can get around 120. There is one breed warden that must approve all breedings and the breeders really focus on health testing. Having one breed vision is helping the group of breeders stay focused.

[the OlLine Rebel]

I’m sorry, but aren’t Shilohs huge, huge-boned, stocky, and blocky? They are not like the original or even the “refined” post-Stephanitz. They are much too big, to start with.

[the OlLine Rebel]

‘Most people are unaware that the breed’s origial name was the Alsatian.

They originated in the Alsace region of -France- and are *not* a “German” breed at all.’

It is very much a German breed. Sal, where did you get this misinformation? I’m sorry, but they were never called “Alsatians” except by scared biggoted Englishmen who hated everything German (and Americans simply lopped off the name officially to just plain “Shepherd Dog” - even recently the GSDCA had trouble with official NY documentation when they found they never re-incorporated under the correct name GERMAN Shepherd).

German officer Max v. Stephanitz amalgamated the breed and organized it, and it has origins all over the entire German region, including Alsace-Lorraine, which has simply traded ownership between constantly warring French and German duchies, and for centuries has featured mixed either/or F/G culture. However, when von Stephanitz was organizing things to get registries and requirements going, most dogs were from different areas around Germany, although there was little direct knowledge of their ancestry, only guessing by where they were located themselves, and their similarity in type to others known.

[Salamander]

Ain’t ever gonna be a “perfect world” so people like us get to clean up the messes.

We have lots of drafts hereabouts, too but they thrive.

[there’s more Perchs, Belgians and Suffolks standing around here than in Amish country, I swear...I have no idea what the flatlanders are *doing* with them...lawn ornaments, maybe, as you said]...LOL

[the OlLine Rebel]

I’d say generally the ideal conformation - or close to it - is best found in “WORKING-LINE” German dogs. Other Euros are quite close from what I’ve seen, but it’s more nebulous. In any case, NOT “SHOW-LINE” German dogs, who are huge, bear-headed, and have horrific greyhound-like roach-backs. (Not to mention the terrible allergies that seem to plague these lines, a dirty little secret about GS and maybe German lines in particular.)

But between some other health or character faults, and the arrogance of “reputable” breeders, I’m thinking of next time looking for a good “back-yard bred” GS. They may not know what they’re doing, but many times they’re the best-formed dogs I’ve seen.

I will admit my Tara (breeder, perhaps not most reputable) is the most gorgeous dog I’ve seen, wonderful conformation (once had a perfect fluid bouncy trot, before the hip dysplasia really got her) - but she has poor character and terrible allergies.

[Salamander]

Perhaps but at least they’re closer to “square” and lack the joint problems.

That’s a start in the right direction.

All breeds who come here get hit by the “size syndrome”.

If it’s big, bigger’s even better; if it’s small, the smaller the better.

And then there’s the brachycephalic breeds where the most smashed-in, least-able-to-breathe face is “best”.

[Salamander]

You could be right.

I’m not a GSD owner or authority and my knowledge of them is limited to show breeders and old books.

[but do ping me when any topics involving “Thuringian Pinschers” come up]....;)

[Texan5]

Mostly expensive lawn ornaments here, but some people have them for nice gentle saddle horses, as well. No one ever seems to use them to pull or haul any thing, though-that is what tractors are for...

The heavy horses do okay here as long as they have shade and plenty of water in the summer. One of the families up the road has a gray Percheron mare-pretty horse-their teenage daughter rides her on the road and the hiking trails on weekends.

There is a Clydesdale ranch about 10 miles from here, too-they have fancy barns that have A/C and all-they also have several retired Bud horses as residents.

[birddog]

Bigger than the barely 70 pound american GSD? Yes.. Good bone, Yes.. Stocky and blocky? Note really... They are deep chested, but not barrel chested. Very athletic and can run all day.....

The GSDs from the 40s-60s were her goal. Kinda like this boy.

http://www.gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/Ldogs/LanceFranJo.html

Look at some of his lineage....

Here is another link really showing the changes in the GSD.

http://royalair.org/pasttopresent.htm

That pic used for the GSD ping is a bitch so would be a little more petite than the males.

Here is info on Flora...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=417697

[the OlLine Rebel]

Lance of Fran-Jo is lampooned as the reason for the decline of the breed in America. Although I think he himself was pretty nice. He was late ‘60s and that (as with everything in this world, it seems) was the starting point of the decline of the breed everywhere - America and Germany. Different manners, but still declines.

Yes, my picture of Flora Berkemeyer, who is a bitch - the most influential ever “the beauty of the breed”. She was whelped in 1911 so is ORIGINAL-STYLE. They were slight - not because she was a female, but ALL GS were slight in the beginning.

GS have NEVER been the size of small Bullmastiffs or more; they should be lithe but muscular and never gigantic. They have always been averaging 70-80 lbs for any given animal.

[Salamander]

What a depressing page.

Nobody's made one for Dobermanns but here's a small example of "change"

1940s [the great Dictator Von Glenhugel]

And a modern Dobe "Americanized" champion

And my dog's GG-grandfather, the immortal "game changer"/korang for life, Hertog Alpha Le Dobry [European]

and then there's The Boy

Alpha came from the same tight bloodlines as Dictator and it shows.

This diagram comes from the breeder/judge education page of the DPCA:

Judging by the second dog [no pun intended] nobody ever looks at that diagram.

[potlatch]

[one of the best “truly awful” movies ever made]

Lol, luckily I never saw it....
Gruesome looking movie poster!

[the OlLine Rebel]

LOL, I don’t know much about Dobes, but your diagram is so much as we sometimes see accompanying GS standards. I don’t know what you think of Dobe standards today.

Honestly, I don’t think there is much wrong with the “AKC” GS standard (or pictures), as most AKC-haters do.

I think it’s like the Constitution - it’s still officially there, and some even pay lip-service to it, but they don’t actually abide by it at all.

That is the problem. As long as there is a power clique that decides what it likes, they control what wins, etc. Doesn’t matter what the document says.