Posted on 10/30/2011 9:02:17 PM PDT by Kevmo
Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
LENR Expert, Steven Krivit, who traveled to Bologna in June, was not impressed with Andrea Rossi's E-Cat reactor technology, and has been highly critical ever since. He has now crossed a line to actually accusing Rossi of running an intentional scam. We don't buy it.
(See also our Oct. 28 coverage: 1 MW E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful)
Steven Krivit, right, arrived in Bologna on June 15, 2011 to interview Mr. Rossi (left) and to have a look to the E-Cat .
By Sterling D. Allan with Hank Mills
Pure Energy Systems News
Steven Krivit, who has operated a journal for years on Cold Fusion called "New Energy Times", published an scathing piece today called Noble Aspirations Are Not Enough in which he accuses Andrea Rossi, inventor of the cold fusion E-Cat, of running an intentional scam .
Scam? I think that is 99% improbable.
Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N .
I would not entirely rule out Steve's accusations of fraud; but I personally find that extremely unlikely. I give it a 1% probability just because I have fooled before by people I thought were genuine but who turned out to be scammers.
I have approached Rossi many times since January with emails I've received from people wanting to invest in his company, or buy units. Every time, he turns them away, saying "wait until after the 1 MW plant test." If he was running a scam, you would think he would have taken this money .
In his press conference in January, Rossi announced that he would be having a 1 MW plant ready for commercial production by October. He has been working feverishly toward that end, putting in 14-18 hour days continuously. I arrived early and am staying late here in Bologna so I could help him with some website content and business strategizing. He agreed to let me come early. But he was so busy by the time I arrived, that he didn't even have time for a meal together, or for me to bring a snack. "I only take 5 minutes for a sandwich," he said .
This is not the behavior of someone running a scam. He is behaving like a man with a mission, with a passion for his work .
Last June, Krivit travelled to Bologna to test Andrea Rossi's system, at Rossi's invite. Krivit was not impressed, and has been highly critical ever since .
Krivit's account of Rossi's telling him about his "ah ha moment" bothers me, but one possible explanation is that Rossi didn't understand the question. He has a hard time understanding spoken English, and he doesn't understand written English perfectly either. Another explanation is that Rossi is extremely guarded about the proprietary aspects of his technology. He doesn't tell anyone everything, and he's only told certain key recipes to a very few people. So in answering such a question, a lot of the hesitation would come from wondering how to describe it without revealing any proprietary information .
I don't have a problem with Rossi's experience with the Petrol Dragon. He was set up by the Italian Mafia because he wouldn't let them get involved in his company. They were behind all of that harassment he received, and from which he was exonerated. I would imagine there is something similar behind the gold trafficking situation as well .
I'm further bolstered by the sentiment I received from Rossi since meeting him in person here in Bologna. He was already friendly toward me by email and phone. A person at the event said that "he is very intuitive when he meets someone." I felt like Rossi liked me a lot more after meeting me, and was even fawning toward me as valued supporter of what he is trying to do for the benefit of humanity. That's what motivates me as well. Some of that favoritism can be seen toward the end of the 1-hour report and Q&A he did at the end of the day on Oct. 28. (Parts I and II of IV are now up at http://youtu.be/nc5K090SZFg and http://youtu.be/1UmoBoAcvxg. We'll be doing a separate story about that. )
No, Rossi is not an academic. He doesn't set up his tests in an academic way. That takes many months or even years. He's in a hurry. I like that about him. I don't have a problem with that in the least. It took four years of airplanes flying around before academics finally admitted they were wrong about man not being able to build flying craft .
Our civilization is on the brink of total meltdown. We need this technology to go to market now. Rossi is doing that. He should be applauded, not harassed .
Now that this first customer has signed off on this technology, and Rossi will be receiving funds, he can pay the half million needed for the University of Bologna and Uppsala University to begin doing their tests, which will take 2 years. I spoke with Associate Professor Loris Ferrari at length about the upcoming testing at the University of Bologna. He will be one of the five or six professors involved. The others are Doctors Levi, Bonetti, Campari, and Villa. The first year will be dedicated to addressing the "how", and the second year will cover the "why", seeking to wrap a good theory around the phenomenon. The first report won't be out for at least a year .
Are you happy with that kind of time frame (for requiring academic sign-off first before moving forward)? Maybe if we had all the time in the world. We don't .
Meanwhile, hopefully millions of customers will be served with product; and mainstream academia will have been shown to be behind the times once again. So if you are a customer or media rep who wants the academic nod before you will move on this, fine; wait two years. Meanwhile, there's an energy revolution starting, and I like being on the front end of things -- the bleeding edge -- not the tail .
In the future, when people are giving PowerPoint presentations about the failures of mainstream academia, I predict that Academia's excoriation of cold fusion for two decades will be seen as an even larger failure and oversight than their 4 year lag time on human flight .
And Steven Krivit -- one of the key go-to guys for cold fusion (he doesn't call it that) -- being a primary opponent, actually accusing Rossi of "fraud", will be another sad commentary on our day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Krivit ends up being shown to be mind controlled in the least (10% probability), and possibly even knowingly on the payroll of vested interests (2% probability), with a mission to discredit Rossi. But we can't make that kind of accusation without evidence, and I don't know of any yet .
This much I can say. When I talked to Mat Lewans of NyTeknik and Robert Svensson of AP separately about Krivit's hit piece on October 28, which mentioned them in a negative light, they both shook their heads and said something about being misrepresented. I found them both to be plenty cautious and scientific in their thinking and approach. Lewans was running calculations even as Rossi was reading the report Friday night. (I show him doing that in the video footage I recorded.)
My personal experience through phone and email with Steven Krivit is that he is an extremely difficult person to get along with. Cantankerous. Doesn't even try to be friendly. That tells me that today's hit piece is most likely just a function of a bad personality acting out (85% probability). That leaves 1% probability that Krivit is actually right, and a margin of 2% for other scenarios. I could be wrong. I'm certainly human .
Commentary by Hank Mills
There is zero doubt in my mind that the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) technology produces large amounts of excess energy via novel nuclear processes that can best be described by the term "cold fusion." For anyone to claim that Andrea Rossi is perpetuating a scam or hoax, is simply irrational at best, in my opinion. At worst, it indicates such individuals may have a specific agenda to try and falsely discredit the technology.
Over the past year, Andrea Rossi has performed around a dozen tests of the E-Cat, in which he allowed independent experts (scientists and engineers) to participate. All of these tests showed clear evidence of large amounts of excess energy. The tests that incorporated the E-Cat running in a self-sustaining mode utilizing near zero input (except the power used to operate the pumps, fans, and radio frequency generator?), especially make it clear that the technology can produce massive amounts of anomalous output, in the form of heat.
The case can be made that many of the tests of the E-Cat could have been performed in a better or more detailed way. By utilizing real-time electronic data collection to record all data from the instrumentation used, placing thermocouples in additional locations, the use of a "control" run, and taking certain other measures the results from many tests could have been much more precise. However, such precision and advanced methods of testing have not been required to prove the technology works as claimed. The massive amounts of heat produced by the E-Cat makes such precision testing unnecessary, even if such modern methods would have been extremely desirable.
Some of the evidence we have that the technology works as claims is simply irrefutable beyond measure. The recent test of the one megawatt plant showed operation in a self sustaining mode for five and a half hours. During this period of self sustaining operation, the temperature of the steam produced did not drop until the plant was shut down, and the test was ended. At times the temperature increased modestly. This would be impossible, unless a novel cold fusion reaction was indeed taking place -- producing huge amounts of excess energy. To be blunt, there is no way the reactor could have been producing hundreds of kilowatts of output in self sustain mode, unless something truly spectacular was taking place inside of it .
Of course some skeptics will scream that the huge amount of output produced is only due to the "thermal inertia" of the system. According to this ridiculous theory, the input energy originally supplied to the system is stored in the materials that compose the reactor, and is then released when the input energy is cut off (when the system goes into self-sustain). This is an insane argument, because the materials used to build the modules have too low of a specific heat (or heat storing capacity) to store that much energy. Also, it ignores the fact that a system cannot simply choose to store energy for a period of time (while transferring no heat to the water being pumped through the system), and then start releasing the stored heat ONLY when the input power is cut off.
Let's consider another important point. Any input power used -- along with the heat energy from nuclear reactions -- is continually being removed from the materials that compose the modules, from the moment the resistors are turned on. The stored energy the hardcore skeptics claim powers the system during self sustain mode, simply could not be there! Both because the materials used cannot store that much energy, and the input energy has continually been leaving the system as heat. Their false argument is not valid, unless they want to claim the law of thermodynamics is being broken!
Andrea Rossi knows the technology works, because he has built and tested hundreds, if not thousands of reactors. He has allowed third parties to make tests of his systems, that the general public is not aware of at this time. Although there may occasionally be technical problems with a test (such as resistors breaking or leaking gaskets), the years of experience he has accumulated and the results achieved prove the validity of the technology beyond any doubt.
- If the technology did not work, why would he have sold his stake in Leonardo Technologies Inc., properties in Italy, and eventually his home in Florida to finance his work.
- If the technology did not work, Defkalion and the very credible board of directors would not be so eager to renew their relationship with Rossi .
- If the technology did not work, Rossi's competitors (who are working on inferior versions of Ni-H cold fusion reactors that do not produce practical amounts of output) would be continually attacking him, writing obviously false articles about the technology, and trying to discredit him. It seems obvious to me, that they are extremely jealous of how much energy the E-Cat can produce .
- If the technology did not work, NASA would not be involved with nickel-hydrogen cold fusion research .
- If the technology did not work, his systems would not be able to be producing (for example in this most recent test) hundreds of kilowatts of output with almost zero input -- for several hours -- while cooling water is running through them! This is impossible .
The E-Cat technology is the real deal. No reasonable person who has been keeping up with the events of this year can say otherwise, unless they have an agenda. I will of course state that the technology is not perfect yet, and can use additional R and D. For example, Rossi cannot always control the reactions that are produced. In fact, in the most recent test, he had to REDUCE the output each module could produce, because the reactor core temperatures were getting too high! If he had run the modules at full throttle, even more energy would have been produced. The consequence might have been that the nickel powder could have melted in one or more reactors, and the modules could have been permanently "dead" afterwards -- until the reactor cores were replaced .
One idea that has been floated around by cynics is that Rossi is a fraudster trying to make money by lying about his technology. The simple truth is that scammers and con-artists spend other people's money, and don't touch their own. Rossi is the opposite, in that he has continually turned down proposed business deals and even donations, because he does not want to, "play with the bones of others." This latest test cost him a large amount of money to conduct, and to pay for it he had to sell his home. A con man would not be making such sacrifices .
I'm convinced the E-Cat technology is legitimate, and this recent test is absolute proof. I hope there will be more detailed information about the test released, because it will be very useful in determining exactly how much energy was produced. It would help those interested in the technology produce lots of fancy graphs and charts showing how much energy was produced. But it's really not necessary, because the information already revealed shows the output was huge, constant, and continued unceasingly for five and a half hours .
Cold fusion is here, and it's called the E-Cat.
P.S.: I have also noticed that one of Rossi's detractors has been pushing one particular theory for many years, the Widom Larsen theory. This theory tries to deny that a cold "fusion" process is taking place, by claiming that only beta decay is occurring. I have noticed this particular individual attacks those who criticizes Widom Larsen theory, and heaps praise on those who support it. I also noticed that his attacks on Rossi increased dramatically, not long after Rossi stated his technology has nothing to do with Widom Larsen theory. I think this shows an agenda, rather than brainwashing. [See our May 31 coverage about Widom-Larsen theory: Cold Fusion #1 Claims NASA Chief]
It seems to me, the whole push -- especially by certain individuals who are critical of Rossi -- to support Widom Larsen theory is a ploy by the so called, "powers that be" to put a better "spin" on the reality of cold fusion. If the general population of the world was to suddenly realize that due to a combination of extreme skepticism, arrogance, and greed a energy panacea was pushed to the side, there could be major political ramifications. Therefore, by pushing a theory that denies there is any "fusion" in "cold fusion", they can better control how the public reacts when the truth is revealed.
From their point of view, they would rather try to suppress and discredit a practical cold fusion technology like the E-Cat, and replace it with more primitive versions of the technology. By supporting those individuals who have produced results no where near what Rossi has, they can insure that the introduction of "not-fusion", will be slow, and controlled manner. Most importantly, the public will not be as likely to fully "wake up" about what *really* happened. They don't want the "mundanes" to know they are responsible for twenty years of environmental destruction, the current energy crisis, and massive human suffering -- which all could have been reduced if cold fusion technology had been taken seriously twenty years ago .
Source: FrigidFlamma
Full Disclosure:
I am seeking a business relationship with Andrea Rossi. My trip was sponsored by Farlie Paynter of Canada, as well as by Mike Spitzauer, CEO of Green Power Inc (GPI), the Waste-to-Diesel Fuel company in Pasco, Washington.
If this works, environmentalists are going to hate it more than they do gas-fracking, because it destroys their dream of Marxism through global warming regulation.
Maybe that is Krivit’s motive.
Not that anyone can say for sure whether this really works or not. All you really have is Rossi’s word and a lot of blog opinions.
What, in your view, would be the goal of Rossi’s scam?That's easy. He's trying to get investors.Who is he trying to scam and what’s in it for him?
He's just spent almost a year producing high visibility demos that almost demonstrate a revolutionary new technology. That "almost" is important. Rossi claims (with absolutely no evidence) that he heated his factory with an E-Cat device for six months on a single "fueling". If that's true, he would have had no problem producing a seriously impressive demonstration. Instead, he produced a bunch of "teases" which were just enough to keep the faithful hooked.
Now that he has a huge amount of press, most of which is breathless praise by a handful of gullible fans (and spread by people like Kevmo), he has the "legitimacy" to convince greedy investors that they should buy in. Since this would certainly involve keeping it a secret (so no one else can get in on the incredible deal), it may already be occurring.
Like every other aspect of this, the claim that Rossi has been refusing to accept money for his "invention" is based (so far as I know) solely on Rossi's word. A con man carefully chooses his "marks" based, in part, on their willingness to keep the deal a secret. Web bloggers and reporters don't fall into that category, so Rossi (if he is a con man) certainly wouldn't trust them with the "secret" deal.
Most people don't know much about con men and scams, unless they've been a victim themselves. In general, no one involved wants the scam to become public. The scammer obviously doesn't want to be identified, and the victim doesn't want the embarrassment of being publicly identified as a chump.
Here are a couple of links to other scams. One is over a century old, but the parallels to Rossi and his E-Cat are remarkable. The other is recent, and shows that even big companies can fall victim to scammers.
Google it.
Been waiting for you to expose them for weeks now. All I’ve seen is slander and lawyer tricks. You’d make a great journalist for MSNBC though.
“Seems to me that can only be done by limiting the public disclosures to those necessary to attract R&D funding and venture capital.”
Well, that would certainly account for it. Guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
LOL!
"My trip was sponsored by Farlie Paynter of Canada, as well as by Mike Spitzauer, CEO of Green Power Inc (GPI), the Waste-to-Diesel Fuel company in Pasco, Washington."
Spitzauer appealing Green Power Inc. shut-down order
And Green Power's financial issues with the Port of Pasco aren't the only ones plaguing the company, which claims to have developed the technology to turn municipal waste into fuel.
Spitzauer and his company face more than $18 million in lawsuits in Benton, Franklin and King counties, and has had numerous complaints to the state Department of Labor and Industries for failure to pay employees or paying them with bad checks. Court records show outstanding tax warrants for money the company owes in unemployment taxes and industrial insurance for employees.
He has a history of other legal troubles dating back to the early 1990s, when he served three years of a six-year sentence in Austria for fraud. Spitzauer told the Herald in 2009 that he didn't believe criminal troubles two decades ago should be held against him now.
Read more: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2011/01/12/1323457/green-power-seeks-new-lease.html
The Green Power situation has been in the local news here.
Thomas Edison took classes from Cooper Union, one of the finest engineering schools in the country.
How do you know any of that is true?
It’s looking more an more like Rossi’s customer is a shill.
Did Edison go to college?My point still stands. Edison was self-taught and self-motivated. When he needed to know something, he went to where he could find it, either in a book or elsewhere, perhaps at Cooper Union for industrial chemistry, though the single reference to this in Wikipedia returns Oh, dear... I cannot seem to find the webpage you are looking for." The point is that Edison did not go to a college to get a degree in something which would then "entitle" him to be considered "educated" in that subject and, thus, worthy to be listened to or heeded.
Young "Al" Edison went to school only a few months. His teachers thought he was very slow. Afterward his mother taught him at home. He then taught himself by reading constantly and trying experiments in the basement. He never attended any technical school, college or university. In later life, he said that his mother was the person most responsible for his success.
Edison had strong opinions about education. Most schools, he believed, taught children to memorize facts, when they ought to have students observe nature and to make things with their hands. "I like the Montessori method," he said. "It teaches through play. It makes learning a pleasure. It follows the natural instincts of the human being . . . The present system casts the brain into a mold. It does not encourage original thought or reasoning."
Agreed. Unlike Rossi and his fake EE degree.
Edison was self-taught and self-motivated. When he needed to know something, he went to where he could find it, either in a book or elsewhere, perhaps at Cooper Union for industrial chemistry, though the single reference to this in Wikipedia returns Oh, dear... I cannot seem to find the webpage you are looking for."Here's the link to Cooper Union, which lists Thomas Edison as a notable alumni:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Union
Since you're such an expert on Thomas Edison, perhaps you can help me find any references to when Edison was convicted of fraud, as Rossi was.
How do you know it isn’t?
Of course, it’s implicit that “assuming what the author says is true.”
If it is true, do you agree that fact has meaning?
I don’t find the reporting very “breathless.”
I also don’t see how you can really say this is about gullible investors. If he were making an IPO, maybe. But the process of attracting venture capital is unlike soliciting the general public to invest money in an invention. That process includes its own checks and balances and its own risk-management procedures, including wiping out venture capitalists who don’t do due diligence.
So what? That’s what venture capitalism is about: taking risks and taking the consequences of taking risks.
How does that hurt anyone, and isn’t that the definition of a scam? A fraud that hurts innocent people, i.e., those who were deliberately deceived and/or who had no way of checking out the claims?
That’s not the case here as far as I can see. If someone wants to take a chance on the technology and, after having the legitimate (to their satisfaction) opportunity to observe the technology, decides to pay Rossi zillions for the opportuinty to take that chance, again, SO WHAT. That’s business as usual, not a scam.
Also licensing the technology (as I understand Rossi has done - to be honest I just started following this and am not doing so all that closely) is very different than getting investors.
In the former arrangment, the technology is actually turned over to the licensee, so the licensee has every opportunity to, well, not be scammed.
If Rossi were taking investment money and keeping his boxes behind closed doors, always promising to deliver to the customer but never doing so, that would be one thing. But that’s not what happens in a licensing situation, nor when the technology is delivered to two universities for basic science research.
Again, I’ve not followed e-cat too closely, but my understanding is that Rossi licensed (i.e., turned over) his technology to a customer.
If that is correct, then, as I said, that is very different from what happened at the two links you provided. There the con men got people to invest in their *idea,* backed up with hoax demonstrations, etc., all the while continuing to control and promise the technology supposedly implementing the idea.
That’s very different from building your technology, demonstrating the technology (however much one wants to denigrate the elegance of the demonstration), and then, after giving a customer the independent opportunity to test the technology (however much one wants to claim they know better than the customer how the technology should have been tested and evaluated), licenses the technology to the customer for them to physically take back to their own place of business and put through its paces.
If a scam, wouldn’t the customer quickly discover that it could not replicate the results it thought it got in the official sales demonstration?
Would they never see the man behind the curtain if he were there?
So. Maybe since I’m new to the subject, I’m just asking the question why some seem to see a scam under every rock here. When, as far as I’m concerned, the hallmarks of a scam — at least one that might actually enrich the con-man for more than five minutes — are not exactly here.
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