Posted on 10/30/2011 3:34:51 PM PDT by Kevmo
How are they getting financing? Is this a public company that is developing this?
***It’s all done privately, and Rossi claimed he wasn’t seeking investors. There was an article a few months back that said he had attracted 400M in euros but it seems impossible to track.
A one-day test proves something?
***For this particular customer, yes. For those of us who have been following LENR, this customer got a bargain basement deal.
When I was a kid, a new kid showed up on our block. His dad was a famous baseball player for the SF Giants. I basically didn’t like him. I thought I was prejudiced or something, because this was the first black family in the neighborhood and since I didn’t like him, something was wrong with me.
He grew up to be a very famous baseball player himself. It turns out that many people did not like him. He’s facing a grand jury right now for lying about steroid usage, even though he retired a couple of years back. People really do not like him, even though he holds pretty much the most coveted records in baseball history.
Both your story and my story show that character shows up early, when we were kids.
I believe that the customer is actually known now. Apparently the customer name was inadvertently left in one of the spreadsheets that were released after the test.
It is reportedly Manutencoop Facility Management. Here is some info on them:
Manutencoop Facility Management S.p.A. provides management services for real estate, building, and equipment. Its services include management and maintenance of heat conditioning, air conditioning and refrigerating systems, antifire systems, electric and lighting systems, buildings, real estate, and technological equipments. The company also provides cleaning and pest control, hospital laundry and sterilization, office support, accessorial, catering and canteen, security, and night watch services; and real estate property services.
This is exactly what the climate-change hoaxers do; the science is settled, but no you can’t reproduce the results independently and you are a racist for even asking.
I’m skeptical. Why don’t they hire an independent testing lab to operate and evaluate the thing. I assume they have a users manual or set of operating instructions that a lab could use.
That last paragraph is a keeper. ;-)
This is exactly what the climate-change hoaxers do
***No, it isn’t. If some climate-change do-gooder built a box that he said could remove greenhouse gases really cheap, then demo’d it and sold it to some undisclosed company, then that would be the proper parallel.
If you think I’m racist for even asking then you’ll enjoy my story just a little bit upthread.
Why dont they hire an independent testing lab to operate and evaluate the thing.
***In effect, that’s what a paying customer is. If it passes their testing, you get paid. Rossi claims he is getting paid.
If you say they can't, then it ain't science and you are just like the climate-fraudsters.
Manutencoop Facility Management
***They are less than a $100M company. I would expect that they are the Facility Management team for the actual customer, who is likely to be a multi-$B company.
So, how can the results be reproduced independently?
***Rossi is just the latest in a long line of LENR researchers who are investigating the Pons-Fleischmann effect, which has been replicated more than 14,700 times.
If you say they can’t, then it ain’t science
***What Rossi is doing ain’t science; it’s business. He developed a catalyzing process that makes the P-F effect easier to replicate, so much so that it is now a newly commercializable product.
and you are just like the climate-fraudsters.
***This is starting to sound like a boogey-man thing, like Godwyn’s Law for science nonsense.
unfortunately, reality lies between option 1 and 2.
Both Mr Rossi and Mr Mills have been focusing on a process in which 2 (not 1) chemical reactions occur. One of the reactions is not a reaction in the conventional sense and is more accurately a physico-chemical process. Mr Mills ‘’discovered’’ this process at least 2 years before Mr Rossi. Where Mr Mills attributes the Ni/H process as a hydrino process, Mr Rossi attributes the same process as Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reaction (LENR). Mr Mills (BlackLight Power) has built a various prototypes (1 kW to 1 MW) Ni/H at least 2 years before Mr Rossi and these prototype performed well below expectations. Just like this weekend test of Mr Rossi was very much underwhelming: one can get the same results from a shorted conventional Ni/H battery.
I am very sure that - at least in the beginning - Mills and Rossi were very sincere.
When a freshly-made reactor was used, the initial - keyword: initial - energy output per unit mass of hydrogen is about 20 to 60 times the energy output of a typical chemical reaction.
What excitement!!! This 20 to 60 ratio was the basis of the Rossi fanboys’ ‘’proof’’ that what one is seeing is indeed LENR and the basis of Mills’ fanboys’ ‘’proof’’ of hydrino reactions.
Now is where the sense of dread kicks in for the fanboys: as more hydrogen is fed into the reactor, the energy output per unit mass of hydrogen decreases eventually to 1 time the energy output of a typical chemical reaction. If one sum up the total energy output of the Rossi/Mills reactor, the average energy output per unit mass of hydrogen is about 2 times that of 1 typical chemical reaction. Rossi’s fanboys are not divulging everything and they need to - somehow - account to whoever is/are the investor(s). Mills’ fanboys have been a little bit more honest.
Rossi’s tests are short-lived (3-6) hrs because the excess energy ratio drops from, say, 20, to 1 rapidly. So the demo stops when the excess ratio is, say, 2.
I am sure the following conversation is taking place:
Mr A: The excess ratio has dropped to 2, when just 1 hour ago it was at 20.
Mr B: That is because the Ni substrate has been ‘’deactivated’’ from the LENR process.
Mr A: So all we have to do is to ‘’reactivate’’ the Ni substrate for further LENR to continue.
And what they will find out is that the energy spent in ‘’reactivating’’ the Ni substrate is at least greater (well, no process is 100% efficient) that the energy collected from the subsequent ‘’LENR’’ reaction (put LENR in quotes since it is not an actual LENR). Mr A and Mr B will say to the investors that they need to ‘’tweek’’ the Ni reactivation process.
Neither Rossi nor Mills have published a complete energy audit of the fuel-product cycle. From what I gather the demos were incomplete (purposefully?) so the observers are lead - inadvertently?- to the incorrect hydrino/LENR hypothesis.
The test need to be complete (at least 72 straight hours, preferably 240 hours). For it to be practicable - utilitywise - the steam output needs to be at least 375oC (critical temp of water) so there is no issue of different coexisting phases: steam at 100oC can be easily of the “wet” variety. No such ambiguity with supercritical steam.
What Rossi has done this weekend is no way comparable to the Wright Brothers’ first mechanized flight. With the case of aviation, any village idiot can see the Wright Brothers’ flight was real: there were no suspended cables keeping it afloat.
Where for Rossi’s latest test, all the results can be duplicated by a shorted conventional Ni/H battery. And the village idiot will say the same thing.
Oh, and Mr Mills (BlackLight Power) has at least 40 engineers in NJ working on the same contraption and got stuck quick quick and deep. And these engineers are not dummies. And - unlike Rossi - the engineers are at least publishing in reputable periodical their experiments in the extreme-UV region: but these results can be explained with conventional electrodynamics and the hydrino hypothesis is not needed. The hydrino fanboys’ also make the false and inapplicable comparison with the Wright Brothers.
What was the state of the art at the time of the Wright Brothers? The aerodynamics was worked out. What was left was propulsion and reliable control. The issue of control was worked out by others before the Wright Brothers. The genius of the Wright Brothers was to put a gasoline engine on an airframe. The roadblock was to find a engine with a high enough power density. Have you ever seen a steam-powered airplane? With no internal combustion engine, the would be no aviation.
I think they are the actual customer. Looking to use this to heat buildings, which is about all you could do with it in its current state of development (assuming it isn’t an outright scam).
But I suppose we’ll see.
Energy is not created, anymore than your car's engine 'magically' makes you go bye-bye. Hydrogen and Nickel are the fuel - energy is the outcome. In a nuclear reaction (which this claims to be a part of - and all evidence so far substanciates) the waste product is Copper and lots of heat.
Fusion reactions above iron absorb energy.
Hmmm.
BTW, it seems a little convenient that the name of a company was inadvertantly left in a spreadsheet.
I agree. The whole thing looks sloppy to me.
Why would you short it?
They use such batteries in the wind power business ~ they try NOT to short them.
Rossi's device uses a standard size a bit shorter ~ 20 ft maybe ~ weighs much less, and has essentially the same racks and facings ~ prewired to handle all sorts of stuff AND has pipes for water.
No doubt the standard equipment is serviceable for all sorts of things.
Did you ever "short" one of these suckers? I've seen a substation full of transformers slag out but "short"?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.