Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

When algorithms control the world (done deal?)
BBC ^ | August 22, 2011 | Jane Wakefield

Posted on 08/23/2011 5:34:40 AM PDT by decimon

If you were expecting some kind warning when computers finally get smarter than us, then think again.

There will be no soothing HAL 9000-type voice informing us that our human services are now surplus to requirements.

In reality, our electronic overlords are already taking control, and they are doing it in a far more subtle way than science fiction would have us believe.

Their weapon of choice - the algorithm.

>

"We are writing these things that we can no longer read," warned Mr Slavin.

"We've rendered something illegible. And we've lost the sense of what's actually happening in this world we've made."

>

"This is algorithms in conflict without any adult supervision," he said.

>

Up to 70% of Wall Street trading is now run by so-called black box or algo-trading.

>

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Computers/Internet; Society
KEYWORDS: stringtheory
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-36 next last

1 posted on 08/23/2011 5:34:41 AM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce; SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 08/23/2011 5:35:30 AM PDT by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Algorithms already run the stock market, why not the rest of the world too?


3 posted on 08/23/2011 5:39:38 AM PDT by Wolfie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon

It’s not the code, its the know-nothing MBA who pushes defective software out of the door as fast as possible, without regard to its quality, security, or correctness.


4 posted on 08/23/2011 5:45:19 AM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic at 9.8357x10^8 FPS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
---Up to 70% of Wall Street trading is now run by so-called black box or algo-trading. -

--buy low, sell high--?

5 posted on 08/23/2011 5:46:21 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the media or government says about firearms or explosives--)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
"algorithm" -- another word that everyone can banty about without understanding.

***

Anyway, don't worry -- algorithms always blow up in the face of reality, eventually.

Of course, when they do, the consequences are often disastrous in proportion to some exponent of the amount of influence the algorithm has, but whatevah.

6 posted on 08/23/2011 5:46:41 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: decimon
From Wikipedia:

The Butlerian Jihad is an event in the back-story of Frank Herbert's fictional Dune universe. Occurring over 10,000 years before the events chronicled in his 1965 novel Dune, this jihad leads to the outlawing of certain technologies, primarily "thinking machines", a collective term for computers and artificial intelligence of any kind. This prohibition is a key influence on the nature of Herbert's fictional setting. Herbert may have coined the name from 19th-century author Samuel Butler, who wrote the utopian satire Erewhon. Butler claimed in his satires that "it was the race of the intelligent machines (AI) and not the race of men which would be the next step in evolution."

7 posted on 08/23/2011 5:47:14 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SecondAmendment
It’s not the code, its the know-nothing MBA who pushes defective software out of the door as fast as possible, without regard to its quality, security, or correctness.

Oh, no, it's the code too.

But it's definitely the MBA, and of course, the CEO's who decide the code can replace entire departments.

8 posted on 08/23/2011 5:48:04 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: decimon
This drivel tells me this guy knows nothing about computers, algorithms, or programming. It is not possible to implement an algorithm without understanding it. At the very worst, the person who developed the algorithm has to be able to articulate it in a way that allows a programmer to translate it into code.

Look around you and ask yourself if algorithms are good or bad. This guy's position says they have developed to a point where they are bad. Really? Can you imagine trying to make a plane reservation using the old pen-and-paper system? Fear of algorithms is probably the last fear that would cross my mind before I fall asleep.

9 posted on 08/23/2011 5:52:41 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: econjack

You are stuck in the Turing paradigm.


10 posted on 08/23/2011 6:01:53 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

11 posted on 08/23/2011 6:06:23 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; JosephW; ...

12 posted on 08/23/2011 6:07:02 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA
You are stuck in the Turing paradigm.

I don't so. When I look around me at "things" that have implemented an algorithm, I don't think any of them are trying to address Alan Turing's Boolean quandary. What I see are devices designed to solve some repetitive problem in an efficient manner. Saying I'm "stuck" on his paradigm seems to miss my point and they one hinted at in the article.

13 posted on 08/23/2011 6:07:48 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: the invisib1e hand; decimon

14 posted on 08/23/2011 6:18:33 AM PDT by Daffynition ("Don't just live your life, but witness it also.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: econjack

We are already building machines that produce useful and reliable results by means we cannot fully comprehend. Pattern recognition via neural networks, massively parallel systems, self modifying code that simulates learning, and many others that are just gleams in researchers’ eyes.


15 posted on 08/23/2011 6:41:32 AM PDT by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: DManA

I agree that there are very interesting things going on in the lab. However, I thought the article is saying that today’s world is controlled by algorithms that are not understood. I don’t feel that’s the case. Even the self-modifying code examples follow the rules of the grammar upon which they are based.


16 posted on 08/23/2011 6:49:15 AM PDT by econjack (Some people are dumber than soup.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Daffynition

The first thing that hit me when I saw the headline of this post was Global Warming is an algorithm (Al Gore rhythm ), and then I scroll down and see your pic. I had to chuckle.

Great minds think alike. You’re also a bit weird. I looked at your profile page. You got great abs, uh I mean labs. My dog watches me swim in the ocean but would never ever tip a toe in the water. I guess you owe one of your lives to your lab. That’s really something.

My dog is the neighborhood stud though. One guy busted in my house waving a gun threatening to shoot my dog if he ever knocked up another one of his prized pedigree bitches. If Bonkers was guilty, he could only have improved on the breed - apart from the backstroke that is (no swim genes).


17 posted on 08/23/2011 6:57:29 AM PDT by A'elian' nation (Political correctness does not legislate tolerance; it only organizes hatred. Jacques Barzun)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: econjack
Many years ago, when I was first on Wall St. in the early 80's, I used to develop mathematical models with flow charts, etc and send them to a programming group who would translate my stuff into code. I know they understood my instructions precisely, but I don't think they had any idea of all the uses and applications of the end product.

These were initially programs predominately for advanced refundings of muni debt and what was known as invested sinking funds.

After those vehicles were killed by Congress, we would adapt the programs to other uses by adding subroutines to them and other modifications (code for which was written by other programmers who did not even know that the original program existed).

After several years, no one really knew or remembered what was in the original programs or models...only that they produced a certain result. They were like sophisticated tools, the inner workings of which were forgotten.

As an aside, there were very few quantitative folks around who could understand the models and innards of those program. And as the original modeler (me) moved on to other stuff, no one had any idea how they worked.

Not saying this is the way it is for all market-related algoritms...just my personal experience.

BTW, I have again started writing market algorithms (this time for myself). But my algorithms are in the very early stages of development.

For anyone interested in doing such a thing, I suggest going online to Khan Academy and MIT's OpenCourseWare to refresh (for free) your math skills. That is what I am doing and it is amazing what one can get for free nowadays.

BTW, for those of you intimidated by math, don't be. Sal Khan of Khan Academy says that anyone can master math...most folks just didn't have good teachers. He makes it very easy.

18 posted on 08/23/2011 7:01:50 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: the invisib1e hand

Are you suggesting that “Dilbert” isn’t just a comic?


19 posted on 08/23/2011 7:04:29 AM PDT by hfr (Liberalism is a moral disorder that leads to mental disorder (actually it's sin))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: decimon; ShadowAce; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; Slings and Arrows

xkcd wedding cake.

Chock full o' awesome.

20 posted on 08/23/2011 7:13:07 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-36 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson