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Ok...Catholics. Just had a Catholic tell me that I'm not saved by "Grace"
vanity | 06/03/11 | winston's julia

Posted on 06/03/2011 7:29:16 PM PDT by Winstons Julia

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To: crosshairs; narses
You have to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. An infant is incapable of doing that.

So, then infants who die young, foetuses, mentally challenged folks etc. are darned to heck in your philosophy?

201 posted on 06/14/2011 11:13:00 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: ScottfromNJ; sayuncledave; crosshairs
note -- Church teaching as from scripture is that one is saved by grace alone.

You are not saved by faith alone, but by grace. Grace through faith,repentence, baptism, endurance -- as Christ preached

  1. What does Jesus say saves us?
    • Matt. 24:13
      13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    • Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
      35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
      36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

  2. 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

  3. Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved

repent, believe, confess the name of the Lord, be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and endure to the end. Christ's words...

202 posted on 06/15/2011 1:09:22 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: crosshairs
The core doctrine of belief that we hold in orthodoxy is that Jesus Christ was/is 100% man and 100% God, our Lord, God and Savior, part of the Triune God who was born here, preached, died for our sins, rose from the dead and is seated in heaven.

What we in orthodoxy, part of the One Holy Apostolic Church (Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental, Assyrian) believe is from the Bible and clearly elucidated in the Nicene Creed

Nicene Creed
Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium.

Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt.

Qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de caelis. Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est.

Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est, et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in caelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris.

Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, iudicare vivos et mortuos, cuius regni non erit finis.

Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.

Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per prophetas.

Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam.

Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum, et vitam venturi saeculi. Amen.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen. 

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end. 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen. 

This encapsulates the verses from the Bible

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, (Gen 14:19) of all that is seen and unseen. (Col 1:16) We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, (Luke 1:35) eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten not made, one in being with the Father. (Heb 1:3) Through him all things were made. (John 1:2-3) For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: (John 3:13) by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, (Matt 1:18) and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:16) he suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures. (1 Cor 15:3-4) He ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51) and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Col 3:1) He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead (2 Tim 4:1) and his kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33) We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, (Acts 2:17) who proceeds from the Father and the Son. (John 14:16) With the Father and Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11) We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church. (Rom 12:5) We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38) We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. (Rom 6:5) Amen

Do you believe in these tenets encapsulated here? If not, please could you explain to us why not?

203 posted on 06/15/2011 1:19:46 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Cronos

“You are not saved by faith alone, but by grace. Grace through faith,repentence, baptism, endurance — as Christ preached”

Repentence, water baptism, endurance = Salvation by Works and is old law. Godly works will equal rewards, 5 crowns. Our works are not sufficient to overcome sin and earn salvation -

Romans 10:4:

“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.”

Romans 3:23:

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”

which is why God gave us a free gift, if we only accept it. “Romans 10:9,10 John 3:16.”

We have available a free gift from God in this Grace administration, which started on the day of Pentecost:

Romans 6:23”

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Ephesians 2:8–9

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”

“9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Romans 10:9-10

“9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

“10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”

Romans 6:1-23 discusses the consequences of sin for those who are saved by grace.

“11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.”


204 posted on 06/15/2011 3:48:56 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: ScottfromNJ; MarkBsnr
is old law.This is what Christ preached

  1. What does Jesus say saves us?
    • Matt. 24:13
      13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    • Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
      35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
      36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) --> note these are HIS own words

  2. 1 Pet. 3:20-21: " It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

  3. Note -- also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved

repent, believe, confess the name of the Lord, be baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and endure to the end. Christ's words...

You've contradicted Jesus's words with your interpretation of what Paul wrote -- I'm sorry, but Jesus's words hold more water with me rather than your interpretation of Paul's...

205 posted on 06/15/2011 3:53:20 PM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie.)
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To: Cronos

“What does Jesus say saves us? Matt. 24:13”

Which was prior to the Administration of Grace.

“1 Pet. 3:20-21: “ It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

Baptism defined here:

Luke 3:16

“John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”

“Note — also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved”

Saved by works?

“You’ve contradicted Jesus’s words with your interpretation of what Paul wrote”

Contradicted by citing clear scripures? Like:

Romans 10:10

“For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.”


206 posted on 06/15/2011 8:42:51 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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