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Dealing with Internet Trolls - the Cognitive Therapy Approach
Unarmed but still Dangerous ^ | 6 March 2011

Posted on 03/07/2011 7:23:48 PM PST by Fractal Trader

You have probably heard various opinions about how to deal with people who write insulting or provocative remarks on various Internet forums (also known as "trolls" or people who "flame"). The most common is "Don't Feed the Trolls", which says that all the people in the forum should avoid responding to the troll. However, as you will see below, "Don't feed the trolls" is also a wrong and ineffective approach for dealing with trolls.

Luckily, I discovered a much better way to handle criticism in the book Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, which is an internationally best-selling self-help book by Dr. David D. Burns for learning how to deal with periods of clinical depression. The book teaches cognitive therapy, which was proven to be effective in dealing with a variety of mood disorders. The book has helped me a lot both in learning the cause of my psychological conditions, and in giving me tools to overcome them.

cover of Feeling Good

This post will focus on a certain chapter in the book called "Verbal Judo: learn to talk back when you're under the fire of criticism", as adapted by me to the world of online, Internet-based, communication. What this chapter does is instruct depressive people (and other people in general) how to properly handle criticisms from their peers. The super-executive summary for this post is: "On the Internet, don't be right - be smart."

One final note: I am not a mental health professional and this is not professional psychological advice. I believe anyone is allowed to give such insights from their knowledge and experience, just like everyone is allowed to give their opinion on computing or on legal matters, while stating the usual disclaimer. So don't blame me if this thing back-fires, and use your reason and judgement with what I'm saying here.

Case Study

Someone joins a Python IRC channel and says "Perl rocks my socks and Python sucks balls, LOL. Python programmers are incompetent imbecile losers, ROTFL…"

(I'm giving it about Python to avoid Perl-elitism on my part. I'm also using "him", "he" consistently, though the troll might be female. )

What not to do?

  1. Criticise his judgement:

    Saying sentences like that will likely irritate the troll further, will likely yield an even more aggressive response from the troll, and will only escalate the heat in the conversation.

  2. Don't feed the troll" - i.e: ignore him. Someone will "feed" him eventually and the troll may continue trolling and feeling he's right and superior, or alternatively that the Python people on the channel are being "jerks" for not responding.

  3. Ban him / call for banning him - a great way to create another enemy, and can also possibly start some "was it right to ban him" converations. Will also negatively contribute to the channel's atomsphere among the channel members.

    The troll may also prove to be a useful resource in the future, or can be taught to love Python eventually.

  4. Tell him not to troll. - you're labelling him, insulting him and making him feel like he's alienated. Some people may still respond harshly.

  5. Cancel the project, or close the channel - may seem very far-fetched but in a project I was involved in and made some suggestions which were perceived as annoying, I was told that they actually considered cancelling the project. Naturally, this is throwing the baby along with the bathwater, so you certainly must not do that.

What to do instead

So what should we do instead. It's very simple:

  1. Ask him what he means. ; interrogate him:

  2. Agree with him (but use a softer language):

    This will make the troll lose steam and help you find a common ground.

  3. And eventually negotiate a common ground: "Would you agree that some people like Perl better and some like Python better? (And some may like both equally.). Maybe you can still write Python code and be productive in it while still not in love with it. Who knows, maybe you'll even grow to like it. Feel free to stick around and ask questions."

(After I originally read that in Feeling Good, I immediately thought that it made immediate sense, and that it will likely work in most cases. However, later I thought that I probably would not have thought about it myself.)

Repeat that a few times and the troll will eventually calm down and will become more friendly and hospitable. Some people who've read a draft of this article claimed that such a person will probably troll further in the future, and so one should get rid of him as quickly as possible. While this may often be the case, one should understand that it is not always the case for all trolls. Moreover, you should learn to tolerate people that have some bad personality traits which you don't like, instead of deciding right away that you hate them and don't want to have anything to do with them. I have decided to do that, and often found these Internet people to be of some value, whether in entertainment, knowledge or technical help.

On the other hand, if you dismiss every one as a "troll" for any small problem, your community will not grow a lot and you'll leave people with a lot of bad taste in the mouth.

Practising

The rest of this post gives more useful advice for communicating with people who are making provocative statements, and can be read at your own leisure. After you've read that, you may wish to practice what was said here using role-playing, by one of the following scenarios:

You can probably think of others.

Some Advice for Communicating with Trolls Properly

  1. Relax: don't worry if you don't get everything exactly right.

  2. Communicate clearly: write in the best spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalisation, idiomatic speech, etc. that you can, no matter how bad the troll's messages were in this respect.

    It may be a good idea to avoid too high or complicated words, because many foreign speakers of English often have poor English vocabulary.

  3. Don't criticise what he says directly or the way he says it (Style over substance etc.)

  4. Avoid logical fallacies: see the Nizkor project about them and the List of fallacies on the English wikipedia.

    Especially avoid ad hominem: "You're under age and much younger than me and not a lawyer, so you're not qualified to give your opinion about open-source licences."

  5. Be polite and friendly.

  6. Don't be too terse. Write coherently, and explain what you want.

    Proper human communication has a lot of redundancy, but people prefer it this way. Even in Information Theory, you cannot compress an arbitrary amount of data to a message which is too short.

    Short and Sweet Cartoon

  7. On the other hand, don't be too verbose, as people won't bother reading you. It may be better to put a claim and reiterate.

  8. If using E-mail, always do bottom-inline post and never top-post (unless you know better than that, which you probably don't). When top-posting, the one who responds can often reply not to the point or miss many important posts:

    1. Quote a selected message
    2. Disarm the troll using the methods above.
    3. Repeat.

    See the English Wikipedia article about posting style for more information.

  9. Don't selectively trim the message without leaving enough context.

  10. Don't mis-interpret or jump to conclusions - ask the troll what he means if you don't know.

  11. Try to avoid using aphorisms, proverbs, "famous" quotes, rhymes or verse etc. Instead use free-form, coherent speech and say what you want in your own words.

    The problem with aphorisms, and their ilk are that they tend to project authority, and usually backfire because a person intuitively knows that.

    Sometimes they may lead to an aphorism war or for "correcting" the aphorism or discussing its larger context and origins.

    All of these can sometimes spice up a friendly conversation and add humour to it, though, but your kilomterage may vary.

  12. Don't make fun of the troll. Respect him and try to avoid unnecessary humour. Be pleasant - not funny.

  13. Don't be rude; use soft words such as "I think", "I believe", "In my opinion", "I find that", etc.

  14. Don't label: "open-source and Creative Commons are Socialism" (So what if they are? They are still beneficial.)

  15. Always start the conversation with a "Hi [name-or-nick]," and possibly thank him for what he says or otherwise start with a compliment. This will better allow disarming him.

Further Reading

  1. "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy Revised and Updated" by David D. Burns.

  2. "How to Protect Your Open Source Project From Poisonous People" - by Ben Collins-Sussman and Brian Fitzpatrick of Subversion fame. A Google Tech Talk - not sure if there are subtitles or a transcript.
  3. The Book "Producing Open Source Software" - by Karl Fogel (of CVS/Subversion fame).


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Computers/Internet; Conspiracy
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1 posted on 03/07/2011 7:23:53 PM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: LucyT; melancholy

ping


2 posted on 03/07/2011 7:26:23 PM PST by Fractal Trader
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To: Fractal Trader

A soft word turneth away wrath. Bide your time and you’ll get your shot at an effective ambush. Take the battle to his home and destroy all his friends in his sight.


3 posted on 03/07/2011 7:30:54 PM PST by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
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To: Fractal Trader

ping


4 posted on 03/07/2011 7:31:10 PM PST by camerongood210
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To: Fractal Trader

Best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them.

The list given here seems more applicable to how to give responses on anything, anywhere, to anyone.

Treat the other person with respect. Compliment them, if you can. Ask questions rather than force your own opinion. No personal attacks.


5 posted on 03/07/2011 7:31:30 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post.)
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To: Fractal Trader; Jim Robinson

Sorry, that technique doesn’t work in the realm of politics, not without a LOT of time and a LOT of disruption of the forum, not to mention compromising on issues.

We’re not here to be an open forum. We’re here to be a conservative forum. Jim or one of his trusted mods throw the hammer, and Trolls ride the lightning.


6 posted on 03/07/2011 7:36:07 PM PST by piytar (obama is going to stick our troops into a civil war?! FUBO! Can we get this scumbag impeached yet?)
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To: Fractal Trader

Aw, come on - it’s more fun to play with the trolls -keeps you on your toes and it burns calories...


7 posted on 03/07/2011 7:36:40 PM PST by libertarian27 (Ingsoc: Department of Life, Department of Liberty, Department of Happiness)
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To: piytar

Yeah, I remember one troll who compared Jim Rob to Hitler. I have a feeling that reasoning and politeness would’t go very far on that one...


8 posted on 03/07/2011 7:37:50 PM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog!!!)
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To: Fractal Trader
We don't really get much trolling on FR. You can usually recognize them right away, for example, the impotent losers who shoot .45 APC and are gay just like Robert E. Lee, who clubbed baby Harp Seals for the upholstery of his Japanese car and rooted for the Boston Red Sox while he was writing epistles to Charles Darwin about Global Warming, Mormonism, and his secret pal William Tecumseh Sherman, who may have worn tutus to his Satanist church but at least he wasn't a Marine.

(Sound of BtD's flameproof hatching closing quietly...)

9 posted on 03/07/2011 7:41:41 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill

Daggone it, Drill, that’s “ACP”, not “APC”, and it’s “hatch”, not “hatching”. And yer a Nazi. A gay Nazi from outer space. Yeah.


10 posted on 03/07/2011 7:54:06 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Fractal Trader; warsaw44; ColdOne; Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!; GQuagmire; wintertime; ...
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Dealing with Internet Trolls - the Cognitive Therapy Approach

Thanks, Fractal Trader.

11 posted on 03/07/2011 7:58:05 PM PST by LucyT
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To: Fractal Trader

A NOOBS GUIDE TO POSTING ON FR

Relax: don’t worry if you don’t get everything exactly right.

Communicate clearly: write in the best spelling, grammar, punctuation, capitalisation, idiomatic speech, etc. that you can, no matter how bad anyone else’s posts are.

It may be a good idea to avoid too high or complicated words, because many foreign speakers of English often have poor English vocabulary. Use words that suit the level of the discussion and the poster you are commenting to.

Don’t let the way a poster says something get in the way of the information. If their way of saying something is objectionable, others will likely help you deal with that poster.

Avoid logical fallacies: I.E. Don’t outwit yourself. It’s all on record, so it’s too easy to prove exactly what you said.

Especially avoid ad hominem: “You’re under age and much younger than me and not a lawyer, so you’re not qualified to give your opinion about open-source licences.” Assuming you really know anything about the person on the other end of a post is just silly.

Be polite and friendly.

Don’t be too terse. Write coherently, and explain what you want.

Proper human communication has a lot of redundancy, but people prefer it this way. Even in Information Theory, you cannot compress an arbitrary amount of data to a message which is too short.

On the other hand, don’t be too verbose, as people won’t bother reading you. THE LESS YOU SAY, THE MORE EASILY IT IS COMPREHENDED. It may be better to put a claim and reiterate.

Don’t selectively trim the message without leaving enough context. Remember, people other than the person you post to are reading as well.

Don’t mis-interpret or jump to conclusions - ask the other poster what he/she means if you don’t know.

Try to avoid using aphorisms, proverbs, “famous” quotes, rhymes or verse etc. Instead use free-form, coherent speech and say what you want in your own words.

The problem with aphorisms, and their ilk are that they tend to project authority, and usually backfire because a person intuitively knows that.

Sometimes they may lead to an aphorism war or for “correcting” the aphorism or discussing its larger context and origins.

All of these can sometimes spice up a friendly conversation and add humor to it, though, but your mileage may vary.

Don’t make fun of another poster, unless it’s a consensual exchange. Respect others and try to avoid unnecessary humor, especially the below the belt kind of humor. Be pleasant - not funny.

Don’t be rude; use soft words such as “I think”, “I believe”, “In my opinion”, “I find that”, etc., when giving your opinion, and facts when you are actually quoting facts from a source.

Don’t label: Unless you like being labeled back.

If possible, thank a poster for responding to you, or providing the opportunity to respond to him. If the poster’s responses are well written, acknowledge that, even if you don’t agree with what it says.

These things go a long way towards providing good communication on an Open Forum Website.


12 posted on 03/07/2011 7:59:23 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Darlin’,
Trolls are kitteh food.
We plays wif dem...
(sometimes using all or some of your above advice,)
before we preys on dem...
and den we let loose wif da lightnin’
and voila!
Crispy critters!
(Witch are bery good wif mustard.)


13 posted on 03/07/2011 8:03:40 PM PST by MestaMachine (Note: I do NOT capitalize anything I don't respect...like obama and/or islam..)
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To: libertarian27

Extoll the ex-troller! Spoken from experience.


14 posted on 03/07/2011 8:21:43 PM PST by MissMack99 (Mitt Romney is a FRAUD, he RUINED Mass. Don't let him finish Obama's job.)
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To: Billthedrill

What’s this about shooting .45 ACP? Is this bad or good? I read some people writing about “stopping power” or “knockdown power” as if a 9mm wouldn’t stop someone.

Personally I think if I got shot with a .22, I’d try to leave the premises ASAP, I don’t think I would want to wait around for the heavy artillary.

Are 9mm’s and .38’s still OK or better than nothing?


15 posted on 03/07/2011 8:32:54 PM PST by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now, courtesy of "liberals, Islam and illegal immigration.)
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To: garyhope

It’s nothing at all, I’m only trolling. And nobody is biting. Dang it. ;-)


16 posted on 03/07/2011 8:36:36 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: All

Oh posh. Trolls are made for teasing. Kitteh is right.


17 posted on 03/07/2011 8:46:53 PM PST by Louis Foxwell (For love of Sarah, our country and the American Way of Life.)
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To: Fractal Trader

Nah, zot him ..... lol

kitty power ... purr purr ... hzzzzzzzz


18 posted on 03/07/2011 8:48:02 PM PST by dila813
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To: garyhope

I had a ex-NYPD guy tell me that a .45 to the earlobe is a wound. While a .22 to center mass will create a mass card.


19 posted on 03/07/2011 9:17:35 PM PST by gusty
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To: Fractal Trader
Honestly, this whole thing sounds like a bunch of emasculated touchy-feely crap. Gosh, we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, or fail to be inclusive. This kind of passive nonsense thinking is exactly the reason that communist lunatics have been allowed to take over this country.

In my opinion, at least on FR, the best way to neutralize trolls is to identify them as such, or to tell them they are idiots in the most direct terms. Why? Because the average troll on FR is trying to sow confusion, dissent, and false information, and that effort is dependent on people not knowing that they are trolls. Once you say "Piss off, troll" the little infiltrator says "Darn, I thought I had them" and then runs off to DU to giggle with his homosexual buddies. Sure, we get the occasional troll who posts some inane thread that is easily recognizable as a troll, and we deal with that type exactly as we should: we leave their thread up for ridicule.

This article suggest a spineless and ineffective method of troll control. It may be valid for the old ladies' flower garden forum, but here and most other places, let's just get it on.
20 posted on 03/07/2011 9:47:15 PM PST by fr_freak
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