Looks Like Ross Perot Was Right About The “Giant Sucking Sound”

The Business Insider ^ | 2/11/2011 | Global Economic Intersection

[FromLori]

Perot is famous (among other things) for his statement during the 1992 presidential campaign that if NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was not a two way street would create a “giant sucking sound” of jobs going south to the cheap labor markets of Mexico.

Both of Perot’s opponents (George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton) argued that NAFTA would create jobs in the U.S. because of business expansion.

However, the goods balance of trade for the U.S. with Mexico has been negative and steadily growing over the years. In 2010 it amounted to $61.6 billion, which was 9.5% of the total goods trade deficit last year.

So Perot has been vindicated in his opinion; expanded free trade has not been accompanied by an increase in jobs in the U.S. relative to the vast numbers of jobs created in the rest of the world as NAFTA became just a stepping stone on the pathway to global commerce.

Just how much the giant vacuum has been collecting has been calculated at GEI Analysis. The results are shown in the following two graphs.

The first shows manufacturing jobs lost each year starting with 1992 that are equivalent to the U.S. goods trade deficits over the past 19 years. The second shows the cumulative job loss, amounting to almost 29 million jobs by the end of 2010.

[Publius6961]

Why do people trust a government that lies 24/7?Are people this GD dumb?

Yes.
At least half of all the 2008 voters were.

...note I did not say citizens...

[taxtruth]

How many were legit???

[LRoggy]

You guys are ALL clueless! That ‘giant sucking sound to the south’ was Monica Lewinsky!!

[Toddsterpatriot]

Perot is famous (among other things) for his statement during the 1992 presidential campaign that if NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) was not a two way street would create a “giant sucking sound” of jobs going south to the cheap labor markets of Mexico.

Data extracted on: February 12, 2011 (1:36:32 AM)

Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

Series Id:     CES3000000001
Seasonally Adjusted
Super Sector:  Manufacturing
Industry:      Manufacturing
NAICS Code:    -
Data Type:     ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS

Download:

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Annual
1993	16791	16806	16795	16771	16766	16742	16740	16741	16769	16777	16800	16815
1994	16854	16863	16896	16932	16961	17011	17026	17082	17113	17143	17187	17218
1995	17261	17265	17262	17278	17259	17249	17218	17239	17246	17215	17207	17229
1996	17208	17230	17192	17204	17222	17227	17222	17255	17252	17268	17276	17283
1997	17299	17317	17339	17351	17363	17388	17388	17451	17465	17513	17556	17587
1998	17623	17627	17637	17635	17623	17609	17421	17563	17557	17511	17465	17447
1999	17432	17395	17368	17343	17333	17296	17308	17286	17279	17273	17281	17277
2000	17292	17284	17302	17298	17279	17298	17321	17286	17226	17215	17202	17178

Poor Ross. LOL!

[DaveTesla]

“So how does selling stuff make in China, help with any of that?”

I don't sell anything made in China.

We make virtually all the component's that go into our equipment. The ones we don't we try to buy from American
made sources.

Perhaps you missed my point.
After were done destroying our manufacturing base
with litigation, taxes, regulations, compliance,
government programs, unions, local officials
with itchy palms, the business either does 1 of
3 things.
1. Goes broke.
2. Gets in bed with the big government protection racket.
2. Moves offshore to escape the madness.

The folks on FR that want the government to fix this problem
by placing tariffs on foreign made goods to correct the
problem don't even understand the problem.

1. Government meddling caused the problem.

2. Tariffs will put more money in the government's coffers
causing more growth of big government. causing more government meddling. (see #1)

3. Tariffs will cause retaliation causing our export levels to drop.

4.Stop allowing the government, lawyers and unions from robbing and killing our private industry.

[mamelukesabre]

Didn’t take long for the bush apologist to jump in.

[BobL]

“I voted Perot the first time because of NAFTA. Unions had already priced themselves out of the market in the NE and had a high unemployment rate and Detroit was in decline when RP came along. He’s a Texas businessman, right to work state and all that. Plants were relocating to the south to escape the AFL-CIO poison.”

You may be right, and Perot made his money in Texas (of course) but I just don’t remember him being anti-union, in any way. I do remember the unions lining up with him in opposition to NAFTA.

It would have been interesting with him as prez, that’s for sure, because he definitely wasn’t owned by the unions - like the Dems - so who knows...and he’s gone now.

[pallmallman]

Our woes all started with NAFTA IMO.

[FromLori]

“Perot may have been nutty at times, but it’s been obvious for years that he was exactly right about the giant sucking sound.”

I agree and we all know how the govt. reports unemployment numbers they leave out the millions who have fallen off the roles and they count those who couldn’t find full time jobs like they used to have as fully participating. I see the usual suspects are on claiming jobs are better what a bunch of crap that is.

Persons Not In Labor Force Who Want Job Jumps To All Time High; Real Unemployment Rate At 12.8%

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2668663/posts

U-6 numbers show 16.1% of us are under/unemployed!

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

Why the Real Unemployment Rate Is Around 20% and Rising(cooking the books)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2606272/posts

“So If You Won’t Believe Me On Jobs....

.... how about Richard Fisher?

U.S. nonfarm payrolls fell by 8.75 million jobs from their peak in January 2008 to their trough in February 2010. Estimates are that the population of Americans of working age increased by 4.4 million during the same period, creating a shortfall of over 13 million jobs. Since February 2010, the shortfall has only gotten worse: Although employers have added approximately 1 million new jobs, the working-age population has increased by an additional 1.7 million.”

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=179510

http://www.dallasfed.org/news/speeches/fisher/2011/fs110208.cfm

[FromLori]

So If You Won’t Believe Me On Jobs....

.... how about Richard Fisher?

U.S. nonfarm payrolls fell by 8.75 million jobs from their peak in January 2008 to their trough in February 2010. Estimates are that the population of Americans of working age increased by 4.4 million during the same period, creating a shortfall of over 13 million jobs. Since February 2010, the shortfall has only gotten worse: Although employers have added approximately 1 million new jobs, the working-age population has increased by an additional 1.7 million.

Want to argue with me? Have at it. I didn’t make this chart up:

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=179510

[Toddsterpatriot]

So If You Won’t Believe Me On Jobs....

Are you Ross Perot?

U.S. nonfarm payrolls fell by 8.75 million jobs from their peak in January 2008 to their trough in February 2010.

2008? What does that have to do with the data I posted from the 1990s?

Want to argue with me?

Just with your silly sources.

I didn’t make this chart up:

I didn't make mine up either.

[FromLori]

Just correcting all your mistakes as usual at least this time you didn’t out right lie. I thought you’d gone away but I see your right back at it. You would do well to find someone else to try to harass I’m not going to put up with you doing it to me anymore.

[trisham]

Wow. He’s nicely dressed.

[DuncanWaring]

What’s the point of that table?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just correcting all your mistakes

You're funny!

I’m not going to put up with you doing it to me anymore.

If I see you post some error, I'm going to point it out. Sorry if that makes you cry.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Poor Ross said that if NAFTA was ratified, we'd lose jobs so fast, you'd hear a giant sucking sound. That table shows manufacturing jobs from before NAFTA was ratified until 2000.

Here's all jobs.

Data extracted on: February 12, 2011 (10:49:41 AM)

Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

Series Id:     CES0000000001
Seasonally Adjusted
Super Sector:  Total nonfarm
Industry:      Total nonfarm
NAICS Code:    -
Data Type:     ALL EMPLOYEES, THOUSANDS

Download:

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Annual
1993	109725	109967	109916	110225	110490	110663	110958	111119	111360	111637	111898	112206
1994	112474	112675	113137	113490	113821	114136	114499	114799	115153	115360	115783	116057
1995	116378	116587	116809	116971	116955	117186	117265	117536	117781	117928	118076	118207
1996	118188	118622	118885	119046	119369	119647	119879	120075	120295	120538	120834	121001
1997	121231	121532	121844	122135	122391	122644	122927	122909	123417	123756	124059	124358
1998	124628	124817	124961	125238	125639	125851	125970	126322	126540	126733	127017	127359
1999	127480	127890	127996	128372	128585	128851	129142	129334	129536	129944	130238	130532
2000	130781	130902	131374	131660	131885	131839	132002	132005	132127	132116	132347	132485

No sucking sound there either.

[DuncanWaring]

What’s to say the numbers wouldn’t have been even higher without NAFTA?

[Toddsterpatriot]

What’s to say the numbers wouldn’t have been even higher without NAFTA?

What’s to say the numbers wouldn’t have been lower without NAFTA?

Ross made a prediction, he was wrong.

[DuncanWaring]

Or maybe he was just ahead of his time - where are those jobs now?

In the last dozen years, the employment rate of the population has gone from about 65% to about 58%.

[FromLori]

Right back to your old self a constant harasser. I thought you would stay gone after I proved you to be a liar last time. You really need some serious psychological help.