Library of CongressGate and north portico of the White House, circa 1859-61Posted on 12/11/2010 11:21:55 AM PST by dr_who
Washington, Dec. 8, 1860
Library of CongressGate and north portico of the White House, circa 1859-61Five Southern gentlemen came calling, anxious to speak with the president of what was, as far as they were concerned, on the brink of becoming a foreign country. For the moment, they all remained American citizens – and members of Congress, no less. But that was a mere technicality. As they strode up the steps to James Buchanan’s second-floor office, they carried themselves with a dignity befitting the founding fathers of a new nation: the independent Republic of South Carolina.
The Carolinians’ mission that Saturday was to ensure that the transition to independence would happen as smoothly and amicably as possible. There was no reason it should be otherwise. In little more than a week, the state’s elected representatives would gather in Columbia to formally sever its connection with the United States. It would then remain simply to arrange fair terms by which the assets and responsibilities of one government should be transferred to the other. Not a single drop of American blood need be shed.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com ...
Actually.. my hatred of slavery stared IRONICALLY with my reading of current white slavery, which boomed with the fall of the Iron Curtain
I have been reading about the women of Eastern Europe being sold into sexual slavery. This got me involved in that issue very heavily. From there I read about the fact that Muslims have had white slavery for millenia. So, that got me mad.
From there I read about the role the Muslims played in black slavery. That made me mad.
The fact that my own country had slavery makes me mad, but ONLY in the context of the Greater Evil.
Did you know even today Christian South Sudanese are held in Slavery by Muslim North Sudanese
I finally made a decision, that with whatever pitiful energy I could bring to the fight, I would do my part against slavery. As I said, the most I have been able to do is to donate to causes that help young women today.
However, much more is to be done. South Sudan and Darfur have to be freed.
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| Secession Timeline various sources |
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| [Although very late in the war Lee wanted freedom offered to any of the slaves who would agree to fight for the Confederacy, practically no one was stupid enough to fall for that. In any case, Lee was definitely not fighting to end slavery, instead writing that black folks are better off in bondage than they were free in Africa, and regardless, slavery will be around until Providence decides, and who are we to second guess that? And the only reason the masters beat their slaves is because of the abolitionists.] Robert E. Lee letter -- "...There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Saviour have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master..." |
December 27, 1856 |
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| Platform of the Alabama Democracy -- the first Dixiecrats wanted to be able to expand slavery into the territories. It was precisely the issue of slavery that drove secession -- and talk about "sovereignty" pertained to restrictions on slavery's expansion into the territories. | January 1860 |
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| Abraham Lincoln nominated by Republican Party | May 18, 1860 |
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| Abraham Lincoln elected | November 6, 1860 |
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| Robert Toombs, Speech to the Georgia Legislature -- "...In 1790 we had less than eight hundred thousand slaves. Under our mild and humane administration of the system they have increased above four millions. The country has expanded to meet this growing want, and Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Missouri, have received this increasing tide of African labor; before the end of this century, at precisely the same rate of increase, the Africans among us in a subordinate condition will amount to eleven millions of persons. What shall be done with them? We must expand or perish. We are constrained by an inexorable necessity to accept expansion or extermination. Those who tell you that the territorial question is an abstraction, that you can never colonize another territory without the African slavetrade, are both deaf and blind to the history of the last sixty years. All just reasoning, all past history, condemn the fallacy. The North understand it better - they have told us for twenty years that their object was to pen up slavery within its present limits - surround it with a border of free States, and like the scorpion surrounded with fire, they will make it sting itself to death." | November 13, 1860 |
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| Alexander H. Stephens -- "...The first question that presents itself is, shall the people of Georgia secede from the Union in consequence of the election of Mr. Lincoln to the Presidency of the United States? My countrymen, I tell you frankly, candidly, and earnestly, that I do not think that they ought. In my judgment, the election of no man, constitutionally chosen to that high office, is sufficient cause to justify any State to separate from the Union. It ought to stand by and aid still in maintaining the Constitution of the country. To make a point of resistance to the Government, to withdraw from it because any man has been elected, would put us in the wrong. We are pledged to maintain the Constitution." | November 14, 1860 |
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| South Carolina | December 20, 1860 |
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| Mississippi | January 9, 1861 |
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| Florida | January 10, 1861 |
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| Alabama | January 11, 1861 |
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| Georgia | January 19, 1861 |
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| Louisiana | January 26, 1861 |
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| Texas | February 23, 1861 |
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| Abraham Lincoln sworn in as President of the United States |
March 4, 1861 |
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| Arizona territory | March 16, 1861 |
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| CSA Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, Cornerstone speech -- "...last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the 'rock upon which the old Union would split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact." | March 21, 1861 |
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| Virginia | adopted April 17,1861 ratified by voters May 23, 1861 |
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| Arkansas | May 6, 1861 |
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| North Carolina | May 20, 1861 |
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| Tennessee | adopted May 6, 1861 ratified June 8, 1861 |
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| West Virginia declares for the Union | June 19, 1861 |
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| Missouri | October 31, 1861 |
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| "Convention of the People of Kentucky" | November 20, 1861 |
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Thank you for making it clear it's not about race. If you have no sympathy for slave owners, then I'd assume you have no sympathy for those who supported it, bank rolled it, and became filthy rich. That would be the yankee bankers, most of whom also owned slaves, although your earlier post clearly condemed the South, and not the north, for slave ownership. What you are saying is that if yankees owned slaves, you're ok with that. If yankee bankers imported slaves illegally (which they did because it was so lucrative) even after the importation of slaves was barred BY THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH, then you're ok with that too, as long as it wasn't Southerners that you hate so much. Your contempt for the south in this issue reveals your ignorance of the real history that you haven't bothered with since what you learned in government school.
I also agree with you about the white slavery of Eastern Europe, including Russia, and the deception and mafia tactics involved. We know it exist in all societies in that evil has no home.
For a moment I considered whether I thought it was worse for the innocent to be murdered before, or shortly after, birth or whether it was worse to be caught in the soul destroying predicament of slavery. I suppose the worst would be abortion as one may have some chance to eventually escape slavery but with everlasting psychological scars. Yet, there is no clearly better choice.
We do know that with a proper attitude one can live in one’s own mind and escape the reality of the moment if one so chooses. That is not easy nor attractive but it is better than having no life, perhaps.
I never went to a Goverment school. Went to a private and very conservative school fully funded by parents (including me).
If you actually bothered to read my posts in this thread, you would see FOUR posts by me condemning EVERYONE (EVER!) who was involved in the Slave trade.
And.. my condemnation of the South.. was in response to the fact that their secession was illegal.. heck their whole goverment was illegal as they did not treat “all men equal”. Their whole structure prior to the Civil War was in direct contradiction to our Declaration of Independence which all the original colonies signed.
The South was wrong about Slavery. You can argue against that till the end of time.. and sadly you would still be wrong...
All Slave owners (all!) in any part of the world, of ANY religion and any race.. who died unrepentant.. and never freed their slaves.. are sucky ..sucky people...
Where in the Constitution is secession outlawed? Are you aware that three states in their ratification documents said they could resume their governance and that that statement was consistent with what the Constitution meant? And such statements were voted for by Madison, Hamilton, and Jay, the three authors of the Federalist Papers?
... heck their whole goverment was illegal as they did not treat "all men equal". Their whole structure prior to the Civil War was in direct contradiction to our Declaration of Independence which all the original colonies signed.
Are you sure about the contradiction part? The Declaration also contained a "leave our slaves alone" statement in response to Lord Dunmore's Proclamation freeing those slaves and indentured servants who would fight for the Crown. Why would the Founders condemn Dunmore's statement if they considered all men to truly be equals? The Continental Congress removed Jefferson’s charge against the King in his draft of the Declaration that said, "He has incited treasonable insurrections of our fellow citizens …" The Continental Congress (or others on the committee assigned to draft the Declaration) replaced Jefferson's words with "He has excited domestic insurrection among us …" The CC apparently didn't consider slaves to be fellow citizens, and thus apparently not equal.
Would that the Founders have gotten rid of slavery when they formed our government. On that we agree, I'm sure.
You kind of did a pick and choose here when you rely on the Declaration of Independence. It clearly states that we have the right to govern ourselves, which the South chose to do. You're saying that's not a right. Then you say all men are created equal, but that is a right.
Once again, you targeted the South on slavery. The yankee bankers in the north financed the slave trade and became filthy rich. Not to mention the slave holders in the north. And when they finally had to give them up, they created all sorts of laws to keep former slaves from belonging to regular society or even staying in their state more than 24 hours. Yet your soapbox is "The South was wrong about Slavery. " Slavery was supported by all 13 colonies and the Constitution.
We live in a very different time now but history is written by the winners and that's what you've read, whether you went to private school or not. Your education shows in your posts. On this issue you were no better schooled than the government schooled.
My education is lacking? Ha! “Slavery was supported by all 13 colonies”! Baloney! Day One, the Northern States were fighting it.
Two, it is obvious that you have not read a SINGLE one of my posts. I have condemned every single person who participated in the Slave trade. That includes Yankee bankers as well as Arabs who trapped the slaves and the Jews who financed it and the Europeans who expedited it.
Slavery STILL exists today in Darfur and South Sudan and I am doing a very very small pitiful part in fighting it.
Also, I am a TEXAN! Not a freaking Yankee. Also, I am NOT Black and to the best of my knowledge, no one in my family owned Slaves. Thankfully, my Texan heritage does not prevent me from acknowledging that my proud state was WRONG when it came to the Civil War.
History may be written by winners or losers but slavery is a total crap. Any slave owner who owned slaves and did not free them before he died, deserves to burn in Hell.
I can understand a Slave owner getting slaves. But once he looked into the eyes of a Slave.. once he saw that the Slave wanted to be free.. and he did not free them.. that is where the line gets crossed.
Don’t bring “olden times” into it. 150 years ago was not “Olden times’ a la Old Testament. People fully knew the evils of slavery. Britain had banned slavery in 1834. Other European countries even earlier. This is the same crap used today about Abortion. The parallels are striking. People who are abortionists talk about their “rights”
Regarding the South and the “right to govern ourselves” pray tell who these “ourselves” were. The whites or the blacks or both? The South was an illegal democracy where (in some states) the majority of the population was not even able to decide.
So, WHO then made the South “decide”. 51% of whites? The Democrats of that time? As a total, the secession then was decided by less than a quarter of the total population??
How is that the South deciding?
Stop being an apologist for Slavery! What the South did in terms of Slavery nearly destroyed our nascent republic.
Also, on this board, we are all FULLY SYMPATHETIC to the abuses of the Northern Victors. We get it. They should not have burned and looted when the won. We get “States Rights”. However, none of that takes away the inherent evil of Slavery, the evilness of which was fully known even to the slave owners of their time. Yet they chose money over God.
If you want to fight for States Rights (which I do and which Texas proudly supports) start by acknowleding that States Rights do NOT begin by killing/enslaving someone.
I will again use abortion as my example. WHEN (and yes, WHEN!) Roe v Wade is turned over, I do not want a single Yankee state then passing a state’s right to abortion. No state can mandate killing of an innocent person.
Enslavement and Killing of the Unborn are NOT States Rights. Our Bodies belong to our Heavenly Creator!
mrkd
mrkd
Who gets the first dollars off your labor? You think slavery was ended by the ‘uncivil war’? We in this nation today are more represented by the Israelites enslaved by a hardened hearted Pharaoh that anything in our recent past. I cannot wait for the next symbolic exodus from liberal enslavement.
‘Day One, the Northern States were fighting it.’
On this point you are in error. The first state to abolish slavery was Pennsylvania, in 1780, due likely to the dominant Quakers. Since the northern states used gradual abolition, there were still a few slaves in New Jersey in 1860.
Respectfully, you Sir...do not know your History.
DISCLAIMER AGAIN FOR THE 47th TIME: Yankees are NOT Perfect. Their bankers supported slavery etc. etc. All of which is true.
With respect, our current constitution was adopted in 1787. Here were the states that had abolished slavery by then:
MA: 1783
NH: 1783
CT: 1784
RI: 1784
PA: 1780
VT: 1777
Only NY (1799) and NJ (1804) had official slavery AFTER our Constitution was adopted and even those two states voluntarily ended it.
If you want, I can post reams of articles during our Constitutional Convention when the Northern States opposed Slavery. Nothing dominated the Convention as much as slavery did
DISCLAIMER: Yankee bankers BAD! They financed slaves. Also, some Yankees still had slaves. ALL TRUE FACTS
STILL, that does not changes the fact that the Southern states were not governed by the will of the majority. Any “decision” they made is invalid as it did not represent a majority opinion of all the people that lived in that state.
As I have said REPEATEDLY, if a truly free state voted for Independence (even today!) I would say “Go For It”. Heck, every day I go to sleep hoping that NY and CA would declare independence and be gone from our Republic!
When we broke free from the British, it was the majority will of our people.. That cannot be said..of many states in the South.
Enslavement is evil. It is the twin of abortion. Controlling another human’s body.
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