Posted on 11/12/2010 4:53:42 PM PST by Retired Intelligence Officer
I need some help on this. I was reading where Bobby Jindal was born to immigrants here on visas. If he was born in Baton Rouge before they became naturalized citizens, wouldn't that make him ineligible to become President? I am in a heated argument at another website over this and I need answers to this controversy. Any help would be appreciated.
R.I.O.
You’re forgetting that the SCOTUS recognized natural born citizenship as separate from the two categories of citizenship established under the 14th amendment. NBC is extraconstitutional.
Justice Waite: “The fourteenth amendment did not affect the citizenship of women any more than it did of men. In this particular, therefore, the rights of Mrs. Minor do not depend upon the amendment. She has always been a citizen from her birth, and entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizenship. The amendment prohibited the State, of which she is a citizen, from abridging any of her privileges and immunities as a citizen of the United States; but it did not confer citizenship on her. That she had before its adoption.”
Justice Gray says NBC is OUTSIDE of the Constitution: “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.””
Justice Gray affirms Waite’s opinion that Virginia Minor’s citizenship was due to jus soli and jus sanguinis, not the 14th amendment, and is, as such, a separate type of citizenship: “Minor v. Happersett (1874), 21 Wall. 162, 166-168. The decision in that case was that a woman born of citizen parents within the United States was a citizen of the United States, ...”
“Citizen of the United States at Birth” from The US Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
No Court has ever ruled that there is a distinction between a “Citizen of the United States at birth” and a “Natural Born Citizen.”
I think most people who believe Obama is ineligible are looking for an emotional outlet to deal with him being President. Once he's out of office and there's a good Republican candidate like Jindal or Rubio, they will quietly drop it.
Bingo!! You have more patience than I do with these people.
“huh?!? Dont know who Dr Conspiracy is, I posed a quote from BLACKSTONE!”
WOSG: “Many of the framers of the Constitution were lawyers, and key ones were English trained, based their understanding and language on English Common Law, and the U. S. Supreme court has said that the Constitution is written in the language of English Common Law (Smith v. Alabama)”
De Vattel: revisited | Obama Conspiracy Theories
6 May 2009 ... Many of the framers of the Constitution were lawyers, and key ones ... They lived and breathed English Common Law, and the U. S. Supreme court has said that the Constitution is written in the language of English Common Law (Smith v. .... The courts have already decided (Smith v. Alabama) that the ...
www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/.../de-vattel-revisited/ - Cached - Similar
I like Bobby Jindal as a Governor taking care of his State in crisis like our former Governor Jeb Bush during the few Hurricanes hitting Florida!!
With that said, the Constitution is the law of the land, and if Jindals only had Permanent Resident status @ Bobby"s birth, he certanly fails to qualify to be promoted to be pResident of the United States of America. Doesn't matter where his a "D" or a "R". There's NO way around that!!!
Checkpoint: What have you learned so far?
Sorry, but the language of the 14th Amendment doesn’t nullify the language of the requirements for president. Both are still definitive law but the language of the 14th Amendment is subject to and defined in the context of Article II, Section 1. Chester A. Arthur was still very much concerned about the language of Article II, Section 1 in spite of the 14th Amendment passed about 12 years before he ran for vice president and went to great lengths to conceal his dual citizenship conferred on him at birth by his father’s British citizenship.
Were you making this argument back when Obama won his party's nomination? Were any of you?
What is the definition of 'natural' ?
What is the definition of ‘natural’ ?
On a more serious note, the Wikipedia entry on the term “natural born citizen” observes:
The Oxford English Dictionary and Webster’s International Dictionary (3rd edition) define it as a person who becomes a citizen at birth (as opposed to becoming one later).
Blacks Law Dictionary (9th Edition) defines ‘Natural Born Citizen’ as “A person born within the jurisdiction of a national government.”
A memorandum to Congress dated April 3rd, 2009, written by the Congressional Research Service, states: “Considering the history of the constitutional qualifications provision, the common use and meaning of the phrase “natural-born subject” in England and in the Colonies in the l700s, the clause’s apparent intent, the subsequent action of the first Congress in enacting the naturalization act of 1790 (expressly defining the term “natural born citizen” to include a person born abroad to parents who are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that the phrase “natural born Citizen” would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship ‘at birth’ or ‘by birth.’”
YOU HAVE JUST SUMMARIZED THE FUTILITY OF THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ...
No Court has ever ruled that there is a distinction between a “Citizen of the United States at birth” and a “Natural Born Citizen.”
NO COURT WILL EVER RULE THAT WAY EITHER, BECAUSE THERE IS NO DISTINCTION. THEY ARE THE SAME.
Blacks Law Dictionary (9th Edition) defines ‘Natural Born Citizen’ as “A person born within the jurisdiction of a national government.”
Natural and native are both from the same word source, which is the same source as having anything to to with birth, such as natal, nativity, national.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/native
The problem is that the ones arguing that your parents have to be citizens at the time of your birth are confusing the fact that that only pertains if one is born in a foreign country. If your parents are U.S. citizens, then you automatically become a citizen of the U.S. But you would not be a native of the U.S. You would be a native of the place you were born.
But if you’re born in this country or its territories, no matter the citizenship status of your parents, you are native born, which is the same as natural born, as native and natural have the same meaning.
The question was..what is the meaning of natural. You did not answer correctly. Go to the blackboard and write 100 times.
Obama is not a natural born citizen.
Obama is not a natural born citizen.
Natural means, starting what is listed as number 1,
"1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process. ...."
Natural doesn't mean artificial.
The point is Obot, that laws passed by man to make people into citizens is an artificial act - unlike natural. The 14th Amendment is an "artificial act" because it made men into citizens and cannot or could not make anyone into natural born citizens. Only idiots don't see this point, but we see we have tons of idiots here.
Congress in enacting the naturalization act of 1790 (expressly defining the term “natural born citizen” to include a person born abroad to parents who are United States citizens), as well as subsequent Supreme Court dicta, it appears that the most logical inferences would indicate that the phrase “natural born Citizen” would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship ‘at birth’ or ‘by birth.’”
Of course that CRS report is full of Bull and more Bullcrap - since the 1790 Naturalization Act, and the clause you refer to was removed by Congress in the next Naturalization Act in 1795, and was an obvious mistake by them. The CRS report is also lying if it said that the 1790 Naturalization Act defined who are natural born citizens; what you quote is BS.
...a violation of the law of nations," citing in this respect Vattel. "Upon the same principle" -to qoute from the argument as reported--"that the infringement of a statute is an indictable offence, though the mode of punishment is not pointed out in the act itself, an offence against the law of nations, while they compose a part of the law of the land, must necessarily be indictable."
Chief Justice McKean, a man of large political and judicial experience and himself a signer of the Declaration of Independence, stated the trial to be a case of "first impression in the United States"; that it was to be determinded "on the principles of the law of nations, which form a part of the municipal law of Pennsylvania."
McKean became a member of the Delaware Assembly and an outspoken opponent of British policies toward the colonies. In 1765 he attended the Stamp Act Congress in New York. He was an active member of the Continental Congress serving on five committees. He voted for, and signed the Declaration of independence. McKean also participated in drafting the first state constitution of Delaware. He supported the Articles of Confederation, and served as President of Congress from July 10 – November 5, 1781. He later served twenty years as on Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court. McKean several terms as Governor of Pennsylvania. http://www.hsd.org/Delaware%20Facts/Signers_bio2.htm
McKean became a member of the Delaware Assembly and an outspoken opponent of British policies toward the colonies. In 1765 he attended the Stamp Act Congress in New York. He was an active member of the Continental Congress serving on five committees. He voted for, and signed the Declaration of independence. McKean also participated in drafting the first state constitution of Delaware. He supported the Articles of Confederation, and served as President of Congress from July 10 – November 5, 1781. He later served twenty years as on Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court. McKean several terms as Governor of Pennsylvania. http://www.hsd.org/Delaware%20Facts/Signers_bio2.htm
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