Posted on 09/24/2010 5:06:00 AM PDT by marktwain
Last Saturday the Madison, WI police department responded to a 911 call about five men openly carrying holstered handguns near a Culver’s restaurant. Police soon arrived, detained the men, now referred to by some as “the Madison Five,” and demanded they produce identity credentials.
The police ultimately cuffed, searched, and charged two men who refused to provide ID with “obstruction of justice.” Days later “Madison Police North District Capt. Cameron McLay said he believes officers acted appropriately in responding to . . . the [911] caller's concern that something might happen.”
However the 911 call recording obtained by the Examiner.com pursuant to an Open Records Act request from Dane County does not support Capt. McLay’s characterization. The caller, Ms. Phyllis Micke, emphasized to the 911 dispatcher that the guns were in holsters, and that “there’s no problem” . . . [the men are] “just sitting there extremely relaxed.”
After the dispatcher explained that open carry was legal unless they are threatening or disturbing people, Micke declared that
“there’s no problem and it’s no emergency . . .I feel bad then, if they’re not doing anything wrong then it’s my mistake.”
Wisconsin Carry Inc. (WCO) President Nik Clark is not surprised by the tenor of the 911 call. Clark said that “every time somebody has called the police about open carriers it has essentially been to ask if open carry was legal, not to report a disturbance.”
Here are links to previous articles and discussion about this case.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2594739/posts?page=2
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2594740/posts
If the law allows open carry, why did this individual take it upon himself to call the police if those who were carrying were not causing any problems?
Just because he was “disturbed”?
Just asking.
Open carry is legal and is NOT “probable cause”!
No “obstruction” occurred!
There was no reason for the cops to appear at the restaurant and certainly no reason for citations.
I hate lawyers, so the city should just turn over all of their budget to these guys and close up.
It disturbs me to have to shop on a budget and wait in line behind someone paying for a boatload of groceries with food stamps.
Until that logic is broken the Police, collectively and individually, will not change their attitude. As i have recommended before I think each police officer, including desk pounders, need to have a personal bond to pay for their over reactions. The bonding process would cover something like this plus dog shootings but not cases brought by felons.
Kinda tosses out any hope of a DC charge sticking.
Further evidence against any kind of disorderly conduct.
This was a fishing expedition by the cops. Period.
“Kinda tosses out any hope of a DC charge sticking.”
The Disorderly Conduct charge sure looks like suppression of Constitutional rights under color of law, doesn’t it?
It is going to be a process to educate both the police and the public about both open carry and concealed carry. The assumption should be for ignorance, not malevolence.
For this reason, I heartily recommend to those out in public with guns, both open carry and concealed carry, that instead of fretting about being offended by the police or their fellow citizen, they be prepared to act as an ambassador of the right and polite use of firearms in public.
For example, it’s important to present a friendly, cooperative, and open countenance to police if it is at all possible. While this may not immediately defuse a situation with an uninformed officer, it will likely buy time so that you can persuade him that what you are doing is legal and upstanding.
The best way of doing this is to carry a professional looking document that shows the appropriate laws. It is extra convincing if the document is in good condition, especially if it is laminated. And it is extra-extra good if it is from a responsible public organization, so the officer knows it “isn’t just you.”
As far as the general public, I’m a big believer in playing card sized mini pamphlets, that can be handed out both to ordinary folks, and to small business owners and their employees. All you need is a printer and blank paper. Probably two pamphlets per page. Carry a few with you for hand outs.
Handing out just a few of these can insulate an entire neighborhood from gun fear, for months or years. It recruits other people to spread the good word.
All in all, it is better to be an ambassador than ticked off at people who just don’t know better.
Can carry life imprisonment or even the death penalty upon conviction.
To the best of my knowledge, this statute has never been invoked. Ever.
The Rodney King cops.
That seems to be the case in Madison, where the dispatcher, the police chief, and the police all knew the law. It had been circulated in an police department memo, the AG had issued an opinion, there were previous court cases about it that were highly publicized, and it had been in the news in Madison over the previous year.
When education fails due to blatant corruption, we can only hope that the courts will offer some relief.
I think we have already won. Now is just the hard work of the cleanup.
What I have a problem with, with the audio, is the name, phone number and address of the caller not being edited out.
Not everyone knows what the law says, which is why the 911 operator explained it to the old lady.
seriously, I would sue them for MILLIONS! make them pay so much that they NEVER do this again anywhere.
Upon injecting themselves into the scene and demanding ID from the men who were doing nothing illegal, the PD arrests the men and charges them with "obstruction of Justice"?!?!?
What justice? There was no crime, except for the crime that the men were being harrassed by the PD who demanded their papers.
Didn't we learn this spring, from our president and the other political foes of the Arizona illegal immigration law that "demanding papers" is a big no-no?
Seems to me the only justice obstructed in this incident was the Madison 5's right "to be secure in their persons..."; and the obstructors were the PD.
I think a lawsuit is in order.
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