Posted on 08/11/2010 5:10:45 AM PDT by marktwain
Capt. John Raguso keeps threatening to send us a review of Kel Tec’s smokin’ SUB-2000 9mm carbine. Today, Hi-Point Carbines drops the news that their long awaited .45 ACP rifle is ready to rock and roll. These handgun-caliber carbine may be gaining favor over the venerable 12-gauge as the weapon of choice for hom defense. And for good reason. In fact, here are four. . .
1. Less recoil than a shotgun
While home defense shotguns put an awful lot of lead downrange with a single trigger squeeze, shooters pay the price with a big ole’ wallop to their shoulder. That’s no big thing for big people who’re comfortable with firearms (who may, in fact, like the kick). And in the heat of battle, who cares? But if a gun is formidable to fire (i.e. painful), its owners are FAR less likely to practice. If they don’t, they will not be confident and accurate.
Even in .45 ACP, handgun-caliber carbines have minimal recoil, relatively speaking. The lower recoil makes the rifles far more attractive to women, teens and (let’s be honest here) small-framed men. They can also put a lot of lead downrange. BONUS! Quick mag changes are easier than reloading a shotgun.
2. Quieter than a shotgun
The state prohibitions against silencers really piss me off. (Somebody was watching way too many spy movies.) Meanwhile, shotguns are ridiculously, enormously loud. While a handgun caliber carbine will make plenty of noise, a shooter stands a chance of being able to hear something after firing—which could save their life. Comparing the two firearms genres, handgun caliber rifles will definitely reduce a shooter’s chances of permanent, perhaps even catastrophic hearing loss.
3. Better than a handgun
So’s a shotgun. But again, there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating. In that sense, handgun caliber carbines hit the sweet spot. Thanks to the carbines longer sight radius, they’re easier to aim than a handgun, And more intimidating (i.e. visible)
Handgun caliber carbines increase bullet speed and, thus, penetration. Hi-Point says their .45 ACP’s longer barrel increases velocity figures between 80-200 FPS (feet per second) over a like-chambered handgun.
4. Less expensive
To my way of thinking, a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. A good one costs the thick end of a grand. This Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine costs $330. The SUB-2000 goes for $409.
I love shotguns. But the handgun caliber carbines may be better for more people. The market will speak.
Specifications for Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine:
Price: $330 MSRP Finish: Special high-durability black powder coat Stock: Black molded polymer-(with standard upper and lower Picatinny rails). Barrel length: 171/2-inches Overall length: 33-inches Weight: 71/2-pounds. Magazine capacity: 9-rounds. Sight: Adjustable front post and adjustable rear (ghost ring) Warranty: Lifetime on parts and labor that follows the gun. Manufacturer: Hi-Point of Mansfield Ohio-every part is made in the U.S.A. Factory affordable options are available: Folding grip, laser, scope sight, etc.
~$250, but Cabela’s has been having them on sale now and then for around $225. Another great sale item that’s fun to shoot is the WWII Mosin Nagant rifle for $100 now and then at Cabela’s; comes with sling, belt pouches and spike bayonet too!
If they would make one that accepted 1911 magazines, Id buy it.
A Saiga!
Beside my bed right now is a PPK blue in.380. There is a round in the chamber and the safety is off. Although the double action pull is a bit heavy, I see it as a fast way to cock the pistol besides I probably will hit the perp anyway. Leaning against the doorframe is a Winchester Defender with 8, 23/4 inch OO buck. Right beside the front door is an asagi stabbing spear along with a home made sword. I would like to have an HK MP5 semi auto but they will not sell me one nor could I afford it.
In a bag under the table is a Browning HP loaded with a 15 round Mec-Gar mag and silvertips.
If money were no object I would have either an 870 or 1187 set up the same way. 18 inch bore barrel and 8 shot mag with some brands of 23/4 inch buck (yes some brands are shorter than others). The shotguns would be ready to fire except for the safety. If my grandkids were visiting I would leave the chamber empty. I would exchange the Walther for a Beretta model 84 which would be kept chambered with the safety off.
I would keep the Browning HP but put it in a drawer and put a Sig P226 under the table, fully loaded with one of the newer black talon type loads. If I did have time to go to the 9mm, either what I have now or would get, there would be around a dozen mags fully loaded with silvertips. If I could afford to I would change the silvertips to one of the newer hi performance rounds.
I would also go and get a used HK MP5 and hang it on the wall.
For many years I have contemplated what load in the shotgun and have eventually decided to just use the short 00buck load. Just about any thing else would also do.
I once had a Benelli M1 Super 90. If I could get one of those recoil reducing stocks they now have for their other models, I might just get it instead of the Remington. My Benelli was beautiful, worked perfectly, looked wicked, but kicked as hard as any gun I have ever fired. Ever!
I have arthritis in my hands and find the pistol grip stock on a shotgun allows me to hold it much easier. That also includes a butt stock. I once tried shooting one of those ultra short models with a pistol grip and no butt stock. I don’t ever intend to fire another one.
So here is what would happen. I would immediately grab the Walther .380 and a Browning black ice 5 watt LED flashlight.
After looking to make sure the perp was not in my vision, I would pick up the shotgun and take the safety off. I would place the Walther in my pocket (if I had one) and glance quickly around the door and if I didn’t see anyone would look further. If I still didn’t see anyone I would just stay put with the flashlight on but held away from me.
Not much reach needed for home defense unless you're anticipating a visit from a gang (like the "HRT" and then it would be best to mine the place and leave before they get there :-) Biggest problem is cost. I paid $2800 + $200 fedtax for mine about 10 years ago, but they're running about $7000 now I hear. Mine eats Norinco ammo just fine.
I’m from Florida - What’s a hockey mask?
Yep they do. Check out my post #16
I’ve got one too, paid $6K for it two years ago, but only have the 9mm and 22LR conversions. I’m looking to pick up the .45ACP pieces to round it out.
You like it? I think mine is one of the best firearms I have.
I see those at Big 5, here in San Jose. How accurate are the Mossin’s?
They look beat up on the one hand but they are only $100.
Yeah, it’s pretty nice, a bit heavy for the size though. Not as nice as my MP5SD3, but it was about half that price. They both are bullet hoses.
I'm seriously envious. :-)
Yeah, so is my Bro-in-law and he’s a cop. It is a fine weapon and is a hoot to shoot. Get’s hot though. It is a definite SHTF goto, and relatively cheap to feed.
Here is the answer to any hard kicking shottie and something I did very successfully with my Benelli: PRO-PORT! I find it hard to believe that the Benelli was so hard kicking because all that moving steel in the action absorbs so much energy, but your arthritis might explain that. It might not only appear in your hands. So a recoil pad might be a good idea, too. You can get those in Sorbothane which is a material they put into athletic shoes to absorb heel impacts on runners. Works very well.
Plan to scope one and use it deer hunting this fall - always fun to shoot something out of the ordinary.
I know about the marlins. Ive never seen one in 45, although Ive encountered them in 9mm many times.
I wouldnt mind having one that took 9mm mags either..Ive got several 59 series magazines in my junk drawer.
Taurus ,45 OSS/DS 24/7 ... twelve round mags, one up the pipe, single double, decocker allows a battery state beside the bed. Laser hangin under the barrel allows off hand accuracy, and wouldn’t have anything else beside the bed waiting for intruders. I have put more than 500 rounds though mine without a problem, shooting everything except reloads. I keep jacketed hollow points in it and the extra mag has ball ammo, for when I want to penetrate to reach something.
BTW, I own two Hi-Point 9mm carbines with lasers and flashlight attached. Have four mags for each. I look forawrd to adding the .45 carbine asap. As for complaining about mag capacities, it aintt that hard to re-slot a higher cap mag which fits into the mag well. I’ve done it with Beretta mags for my Taurus 9mm 24/7, so I can slam 30 round mags into it in a pinch.
I don’t want to interview them on intent and I am not interested in learning why they are there.
The bottom line is they shouldn’t be in my home and my assumption is they are committed, no matter what, on achieving their goal and if I am in the way, they don’t care.
The way I look at it is pretty much the same as you, just semantic differences.
If someone enters my home without my permission or that of my wife, particularly when it is dark outside and more particularly when they've broken a window or jimmied a lock to do so, then I presume that I know their intent - to rob my house and to badly hurt or kill me or members of my family in order to do so. This is not even a question in my mind. I don't give a rat's ass whether they have a weapon that I can see or not, I presume that entering someone's house in that fashion means that they do have a weapon that is simply concealed from me at the moment. For me, it is literally a matter of "shoot first and ask questions later," as asking questions or trying to do the Hollywood thing of racking the slide on a shottie or making some smart aleck challenge will result in my death, my wife's rape and murder, and the murder of my kids (who are now old enough to ID someone).
This may sound cruel to some, but I don't care. My responsibility is to safeguard my family - part of which includes safeguarding my life since I can't safeguard them if I'm bleeding out all over the floor. Someone comes in my home with bad intent, they're leaving in a body bag. Simple solution - stay the eff out of my home unless I invite you in.
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