Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine: Are Handgun Caliber Rifles the New Home Defense Shotgun?

The Truth About Guns ^ | 10 August, 2010 | Robert Farago

[archy]

Dad was a tank platoon commander back in the mid-1950s, and had to qualify with the M3. He loved those things.

Me too. Except that it was a bit difficult to retract the bolt on the simplified later version M3A1 when wearing gloves. That was a problem during my first hitch, as a young tank crewman in Germany, less so my second time out of the cage during my tour of the spas and cathouses of Southeast asia.

The only real problem I had with the things was that the GI issue 3-cell magazine pouches were in short supply. In germany we used an *engineers bag* pouch with eight mags to cure that problem. After I found out how much ammo I could go through when I missed a lot, I started carrying 15 magazines in a GO *buttpack* on a wide strap sling over my other shoulder.

[archy]

I agree with a few posters, a 12-gauge pump shotgun with 18” barrel is the perfect home defense gun 12 inch or so would be even better.. if not for that stupid federal law. You would lose magazine capacity in a standard tubular magazine, but there are some with box type magazines.

I've had a 14-inch barrelled Remington 870 AOW, and found it to be a bit slow for the second and followup shots. Agreed, a 12-to-14- inch barrel can indeed be handy on a shotgun, but good control pretty well requires having the full buttstock on behind, not just a pistol grip.

Also, muzzle flash from a shorty can lead to flashblindness of the user at night. Since I had mine as bear insurance, that wasn't much of a consideration for me, particularly as my first round up the spout was a dragon's breath load, which I figured would serve either to discourage any bruins I ran into at night, or to signal to aircraft passing overhead.

[wastedyears]

That folds up like how Bugs Bunny would fold Elmer Fudd’s shotgun. That already makes me want one. But I live in the Democratic People’s Republic of Bloomberg City.

Plus I’m a small guy, so I’d probably only be able to handle a 20 gauge comfortably.

[archy]

The ideal home defense weapon

Carried one on the 5km zone on our side of the *Iron Curtain* fences in Germany in the 1960s and taught the NATO weapons familiarization course to Seventh Army NCO Academy troops at Bad Toelz. Had one when I was in Israel but mostly carried a Browning GP instead, and had one as my ambush answer while driving a Toyota half-ton truck or Volkswagen Rabbit in Africa in the '70s- the Uzi fit very nicely in the full-dash-width package shelf the Rabbit had instead of a glove box. Very neat, but not much reach- and now not often seen in Israel, where most in the Army carry M16s, and the police reservists [mishmir esrachi] mostly carry old US M1 carbines- more reach.

Mine didn't care much for US jacketed hollowpoint ammo, which would be what I'd want to use inside a home. But that was easy to fix, and in a vehicle in the outdoors with ball ammo mixed with occasional spits of three tracers, very nice.

[Lurker]

I've got a few of those Dragon Breath rounds laying around. They're pretty spectacular at night.

I've been saving them because I know that when I get older I'll be too lazy to walk up to what I want to set on fire.

[FreedomPoster]

He missed riding in tanks in the SEA festivities, so didn’t have to deal with keeping the M3 fed in times of serious need. By that time he had gone Army Aviation and flew Caribou out of Can Tho. Don’t know what he kept in the cockpit, just thinking about it, and he’s not around to ask (he came back from VN, died after retirement).

Your answer on keeping the M3 fed looks like a good one to me!

[archy]

Check out Post #12. What a hoot!

Concur. If you've got enough ammo around, a Thompson can be a very handy thing to have.

All the *experts* agree!

[wolfcreek]

Shotguns can be loaded with ammo that WON’T go through several walls and you don’t have to be a crack shot.

[wolfcreek]

Got one of these for $189.95 plus tax.

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm

[William Tell]

Leaning Right said: "- Aggressive questioning by the police. Say the wrong thing the wrong way, ..."

There's a very good series of videos on Youtube by a lawyer explaining why you should REMAIN SILENT. Perhaps somebody can post a link.

The most convincing point to me was that it isn't even safe to tell the absolute truth. If a credible witness mistakenly contradicts what actually happened, the contradiction alone might reflect badly on you, making it appear that you are lying.

Anything you wish to say can be said AFTER you talk to your attorney. I can't remember if it was the same series of videos which makes it clear that NOTHING you can say is likely to reverse the opinion of an officer who would decide to arrest you if you remain silent.

[El Gato]

Kind of wish grandma was allowed to possess a taser.

Where does she live that she can't have a taser? They are openly and freely available here in Texas. Grandma needs to move here. :)

But this grandpa (with cane BTW, temporarily at least) prefers .45 ACP, .30 Carbine and 12 gauge (mine has 18.5" barrel, full length pistol grip stock) There's a video of me shooting the serious social purposes shotgun (I have a bird gun too) on YouTube. (Can't go to YouTube here, but it's under "Humblegunner" and something like "3rd Texas Cowboy Memorial shoot. Lots of other FReepers shooting their weapons of choice, plus the livestock on the range.) In the video I also have one of the .45s on my hip (EAA Witness compact) , where it looks very tiny indeed.

[rellimpank]

—here’s the link—

—http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

[P8riot]

Yep, there’s a 50 rd drum mag you can use with either the 1911 or the Camp Carbine. I’ve seen one, but never actually used it.

[ExSoldier]

I disagree with the use of any PUMP action shotgun for home defense by a novice shooter or homeowner not into regular practice. Under extreme pressure, too easy to “SHORT STROKE” the reload in order to fire the second round. This means that there is a failure to bring the pump forcefully to the bottom of it’s cycle and then start back up to chamber the round. This results in a double feed jam and can only be cleared by a detail strip of the weapon (usually a gunsmith job) difficult to stay alive under these circumstances. As far as the legendary sound, it can be exactly duplicated by "racking" the bolt of a semi auto shotgun. I'll take my Benelli anyday. But don't take my word for it: Ask the USMC

[ExSoldier]

I bought the Judge "Public Defender" for long car trips (give my wife some warm fuzzies if I have to leave the vehicle) but I wouldn't use the 410 shot indoors. I might use the 45 Colt load. But I have better launch platforms for that situation.

[ExSoldier]

I used to have a sub-2000 in 9mm. It was fun, very 007 in portability, but has anybody ever heard the old saying: The purpose of a handgun is to give you time to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun? That's the idea. A 9mm carbine is not any more of a "fight stopper" than is a 9mm handgun. For that matter the same can be said of the 45acp. A 12 ga is a decisive fight stopper.

[Tribune7]

Ya outdrew me partner :-)

[paul51]

I like handguns and I like carbines but for clearing out space, nothing does it like a shotgun.

[Redcitizen]

You forgot the hockey mask— for face protection (really!)

[Redcitizen]

” But he doesn’t really want a gun for HD like I do.”...

He must be of the opinion that taking out the trash is the wife’s job. =)