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National Spelling Bee protests: Should we simplify English spelling?
Christian Science Monitor ^ | 4 June 2010 | Eoin O'Carroll

Posted on 06/04/2010 8:50:41 PM PDT by James C. Bennett

The Scripps National Spelling Bee highlights what a mess the English spelling is – a hodgepodge of orthographies borrowed from German, French, Greek, and Latin. Is it time for a makeover?

The Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw is said to have joked that the word "fish" could legitimately be spelled "ghoti," by using the "gh" sound from "enough," the "o" sound from "women," and the "ti" sound from "action."

Shaw was probably not the originator of this joke, but he was one of a long line of people who thought that the English language's anarchic spelling, a hodgepodge of Germanic, French, Greek, and Latin, was desperately in need of reform.

To this end, he willed a portion of his estate toward the development of a new phonetic script. The result was the Shavian alphabet, whose 47 letters have a one-to-one phonetic correspondence with sounds in the English language. Like just about every other attempt to rein in English spelling, Shaw's alphabet continues to be widely ignored to this day.

But spelling-reform advocates press on. The Associated Press reported that this year's Scripps National Spelling Bee was picketed by four protesters, some dressed in bee costumes, who distributed buttons reading "Enuf is enuf. Enough is too much."

The demonstrators were from the the American Literacy Council and the London-based Spelling Society, organizations that aim to do to English orthography what the metric system did for weights and measures. The American Literacy Council endorses SoundSpel, which seeks to "rationalize" the English language by spelling each of the English language's 42 (or so) phonemes one way and one way only. In SoundSpel, "business" becomes "bizness," "equation" becomes "ecwaezhun," "learned" becomes "lernd," "negotiate" becomes "negoesheaet," and so on.

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: education; literacy; ohio; protests; spellcheck; spelling; spellingbee
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To: fso301
Right.

The great genius of language, especially the English language, is that it is a bottom-up evolution much like the Internet and, like the Internet, it should remain an expression of individual liberty. The god-players on the left cannot leave anything free of top-down micromanagement.

Here in Germany, and in France, there are government agencies to determine how words should be spelt, ... er I mean spelled.


21 posted on 06/04/2010 9:31:13 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: James C. Bennett
The Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw is said to have joked that the word "fish" could legitimately be spelled "ghoti," by using the "gh" sound from "enough," the "o" sound from "women," and the "ti" sound from "action."

it could not... there are rules... now i do like to, in my head, say "not a thruff street," when i read the road sing, "not a through street."

22 posted on 06/04/2010 9:31:16 PM PDT by latina4dubya ( self-proclaimed tequila snob)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Plus you didn’t have teachers who felt it was more important to be sure you had high self-esteem than to correct your spelling. I can remember papers having all sorts of corrections marked in red ink, and whenever they occurred, not just when spelling was stressed. Nowadays some school districts have even banned the dreaded “red pen” for fear of making kiddies feel badly about themselves.

When my kids were going through school, the teachers tolerated “creative” spelling so it would supposedly not interfere with their “creative” writing. But the way I learned to spell was largely on recognition and repetition and if I had been allowed to repeatedly misspell words, my mind would have imprinted it to be a stumbling block the rest of my life.

I, too, grew up in an atmosphere where you learned to spell correctly. Voracious reading also taught me a lot about our marvelous language. I am currently going through Richard Mitchell’s “Crazy Fractured English” again. I love Mitchell’s books skewering pompous English bloviating and Edwin Newman’s book on the same subject. English is a fascinating, creative language and if we “simplified” the spelling, we would lose the ability to figure out what the words mean because the spelling is a sign of which language contributed the word. It would be a tremendous loss and pretty confusing.

By the way, I love your photos.


23 posted on 06/04/2010 9:33:25 PM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: fso301

“English is a highly dynamic language and as such, should not be meddled with.”

Some of the changes described in the article are already evolving out of texting and twitter. Rap culture tends that way also. cu soon. hav biznes 2 do.

Another interesting development. Linguists have thought for a long time that the English verb “to be” would take centuries and centuries to regularize (English verbs have regularized historically in an inverse relationship to the commonness of the use of the verb. E.g., “He spake”).

But “to be” has begun to regularize in rap culture in only about 20 years. “I be top dog.” “We be goin’ soon.” The practice has spread quickly to the general culture amongst youngsters. I be done writing now.


24 posted on 06/04/2010 9:33:46 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: nathanbedford; grey_whiskers; firebrand
This thread is meant for you.


25 posted on 06/04/2010 9:34:16 PM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford
Europe English

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five year phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen world!

Cheers!

26 posted on 06/04/2010 9:40:11 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Xenalyte
First, I entirely agree with you, buu-uu-uut, sometimes it isn't quite as easy it might seem.

An example for you Xena...just for fun. Ready?

Punctuate the following to make exactly ONE grammatically correct sentence:

===

Xena where Tax-chick had had has had had had had had had had had had both the teacher's and SAJ's approval.

===

Care to have a go, said SAJ with a smile? If you do it properly, I'll even agree to take a ride (my own expense) on the Wham-Bam.

27 posted on 06/04/2010 9:44:14 PM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama? A phony and a prick, ergo a dildo.)
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To: fso301

Meddling with English, to borrow from Churchill, is something up with which I shall not put.


28 posted on 06/04/2010 9:45:48 PM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama? A phony and a prick, ergo a dildo.)
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To: ModelBreaker

You make some good points. Got to say, though, that seeing the twitter and message slang like r, cu, lol, and others is to me like fingernails on a blackboard. I have resisted going with the flow with just a couple exceptions: I have been known to use btw and iirc. But I think that’s about the extent of my corruption. I do hope that ghetto slang doesn’t catch on in serious communications. My children and I message daily on our phones using full English while a contemporary of mine uses the common abbreviations.


29 posted on 06/04/2010 9:48:27 PM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: caseinpoint
Thanks.

I remember kids who obviously didn't hear good English at home being corrected, over and over, until they got it right. Teachers don't do that now, I know of teachers with language problems.

Words are the tools you use to form concepts, as much as to communicate with others. A limited language isn't going to create many deep thinkers.

30 posted on 06/04/2010 9:50:22 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, A Matter Of Fact, Not A Matter Of Opinion)
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To: ModelBreaker
Especially the particular usages, "I be a dumshjt" and "we be dumshjts".

You seem to want to succumb to the same, frankly disastrous, point of view that consigned even Medieval Latin to the ash-heap of history.

Given the relative levels of civilisation and language at that time and now, you would apparently surrender to those having even fewer demonstrable brain cells than the assorted barbarian hordes.

As M. T. Cicero used to ask, when confronted with a crime such as you (apparently) advocate: "Cui bono?"

31 posted on 06/04/2010 9:52:03 PM PDT by SAJ (Zerobama? A phony and a prick, ergo a dildo.)
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To: James C. Bennett

Theeze peepel ar stoopid.


32 posted on 06/04/2010 9:59:23 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Flip Both Houses)
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To: James C. Bennett
The Scripps National Spelling Bee highlights what a mess the English spelling is – a hodgepodge of orthographies borrowed from German, French, Greek, and Latin. Is it time for a makeover?

Hell no. Leave the artificial committee-driven language design to the French. Modern-day English is used in so much of the world precisely because of it's dynamism and ability to grow. English is the closest thing the world has to a universal language and it didn't get that way because any official body tried to meddle with it's natural development, which is being driven now by people in all walks of life all over the Earth.
33 posted on 06/04/2010 10:10:46 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: James C. Bennett
The demonstrators were from the the American Literacy Council and the London-based Spelling Society, organizations that aim to do to English orthography what the metric system did for weights and measures.

We need to institute the decabet.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.snlarc.jt.org/caps/episode_sketches/1976-04-24-9.jpg&imgrefurl=http://snl.jt.org/ep.php%3Fi%3D197604240&usg=__d6k1e4litF407nWc7--c1fWw_RE=&h=150&w=200&sz=33&hl=en&start=4&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=J5iM1VYM2FUkFM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddan%2Baykroyd%2Bdecabet%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

34 posted on 06/04/2010 10:39:05 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: SAJ

“Especially the particular usages, “I be a dumshjt” and “we be dumshjts”. You seem to want to succumb to the same, frankly disastrous, point of view that consigned even Medieval Latin to the ash-heap of history.”

I’m of two minds about this:

1. There’s the demonstrable history that English changes a lot over time. Our English would probably be considered a barbaric regularization of verbs by educated English speakers from 300 years ago. Yet we consider ourselves defenders of the language from the barbarians. It’s going to change and there’s nothing we can do. With texting, twitter and the internet interacting with pop-culture, it will change much faster than it ever has before.

2. OTOH, writing and speaking well—and defending those who do—is really the only response we have.

But pretending the language is not going to change and that the change will not be in the direction of “commoness”—at least in our lifetimes—is not living in reality even though I think folks who use the regular form of “to be” sound like idiots. In 100 years, they won’t; and will probably rail at the debasement of their language by new, common usages.

I love reading 18th and 19th century correspondence. It was so much more eloquent, precise, and expressive than texting. OTOH, Beowulf-era English and even Edwardian English is hard to read or understand. But, in reality, I text my wife and son regularly and we all use abbreviations. And that’s how Beowulf-era English changed into American 2011 English.

Frankly, I don’t care that I don’t speak Medieval Latin. So I guess I’m a craven succumber. :)


35 posted on 06/04/2010 11:06:44 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: aquila48

Well learnt Aquila. I’m an ESL teacher and I can tell you Italians learn English quick.
As you know one/won are homophones.
So, I had a group (of brain dead oafs)at France Telcom and one of them asked me what “homophones” are, so I answered “Gay Telephones”. It seemed funny at the time. Anyway, they complained to my boss and I was pulled from the contract.
Remember, Heteronyms row/row, tear/tear.


36 posted on 06/04/2010 11:10:37 PM PDT by paristwelve (Feeling sorry for things is just an excuse for not celebrating your own happiness.)
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To: caseinpoint

“You make some good points. Got to say, though, that seeing the twitter and message slang like r, cu, lol, and others is to me like fingernails on a blackboard. I have resisted going with the flow with just a couple exceptions: I have been known to use btw and iirc. But I think that’s about the extent of my corruption. I do hope that ghetto slang doesn’t catch on in serious communications. My children and I message daily on our phones using full English while a contemporary of mine uses the common abbreviations.”

Part is context. There’s a reason posting on Free Republic is less formal than, say, legal writing. Different contexts. Texting is difficult (at least for me with my big thumbs) and abbreviations are the natural result of that. Of course, the usages of texting bleed over into other writing. So, we see “BTW” “OTOH” and the like on FR all the time. But we do not see it in formal writing. Eventually, perhaps, we will. Perhaps b4 we expect it.


37 posted on 06/04/2010 11:11:50 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: GeronL
no we should not simplify it

Here's a question in perfect, unsimplified English:

Do you ever tear up watching wolves tear up does the way they do?

Found at The Spelling Society

The Chaos by Gerard Nolst Trenité.

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse

Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse.

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy;
Tear in eye, your dress you'll tear;

Queer, fair seer, hear my prayer.

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it! 10
Just compare heart, hear and heard,

Dies and diet, lord and word.

Sword and sward, retain and Britain
(Mind the latter how it's written).
Made has not the sound of bade,

Say - said, pay - paid, laid but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,
But be careful how you speak,

Say: gush, bush, steak, streak, break, bleak, 20

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via
Recipe, pipe, studding-sail, choir;
Woven, oven, how and low,

Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Say, expecting fraud and trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,
Branch, ranch, measles, topsails, aisles,

Missiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing,
Same, examining, but mining, 30
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,

Solar, mica, war and far.

From "desire": desirable - admirable from "admire",
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier,
Topsham, brougham, renown, but known,

Knowledge, done, lone, gone, none, tone,

One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel.
Gertrude, German, wind and wind,

Beau, kind, kindred, queue, mankind, 40

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, Reading, heathen, heather.
This phonetic labyrinth

Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Have you ever yet endeavoured
To pronounce revered and severed,
Demon, lemon, ghoul, foul, soul,

Peter, petrol and patrol?

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet. 50
Blood and flood are not like food,

Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which exactly rhymes with khaki.
Discount, viscount, load and broad,

Toward, to forward, to reward,

Ricocheted and crocheting, croquet?
Right! Your pronunciation's OK.
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,

Friend and fiend, alive and live. 60

Is your R correct in higher?
Keats asserts it rhymes with Thalia.
Hugh, but hug, and hood, but hoot,

Buoyant, minute, but minute.

Say abscission with precision,
Now: position and transition;
Would it tally with my rhyme

If I mentioned paradigm?

Twopence, threepence, tease are easy,
But cease, crease, grease and greasy? 70
Cornice, nice, valise, revise,

Rabies, but lullabies.

Of such puzzling words as nauseous,
Rhyming well with cautious, tortious,
You'll envelop lists, I hope,

In a linen envelope.

Would you like some more? You'll have it!
Affidavit, David, davit.
To abjure, to perjure. Sheik

Does not sound like Czech but ache. 80

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, loch, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,

People, leopard, towed but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover.
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,

Chalice, but police and lice,

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label. 90
Petal, penal, and canal,

Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal,

Suit, suite, ruin. Circuit, conduit
Rhyme with "shirk it" and "beyond it",
But it is not hard to tell

Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,

Senator, spectator, mayor, 100

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
Has the A of drachm and hammer.
Pussy, hussy and possess,

Desert, but desert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants
Hoist in lieu of flags left pennants.
Courier, courtier, tomb, bomb, comb,

Cow, but Cowper, some and home.

"Solder, soldier! Blood is thicker",
Quoth he, "than liqueur or liquor", 110
Making, it is sad but true,

In bravado, much ado.

Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Pilot, pivot, gaunt, but aunt,

Font, front, wont, want, grand and grant.

Arsenic, specific, scenic,
Relic, rhetoric, hygienic.
Gooseberry, goose, and close, but close,

Paradise, rise, rose, and dose. 120

Say inveigh, neigh, but inveigle,
Make the latter rhyme with eagle.
Mind! Meandering but mean,

Valentine and magazine.

And I bet you, dear, a penny,
You say mani-(fold) like many,
Which is wrong. Say rapier, pier,

Tier (one who ties), but tier.

Arch, archangel; pray, does erring
Rhyme with herring or with stirring? 130
Prison, bison, treasure trove,

Treason, hover, cover, cove,

Perseverance, severance. Ribald
Rhymes (but piebald doesn't) with nibbled.
Phaeton, paean, gnat, ghat, gnaw,

Lien, psychic, shone, bone, pshaw.

Don't be down, my own, but rough it,
And distinguish buffet, buffet;
Brood, stood, roof, rook, school, wool, boon,

Worcester, Boleyn, to impugn. 140

Say in sounds correct and sterling
Hearse, hear, hearken, year and yearling.
Evil, devil, mezzotint,

Mind the z! (A gentle hint.)

Now you need not pay attention
To such sounds as I don't mention,
Sounds like pores, pause, pours and paws,

Rhyming with the pronoun yours;

Nor are proper names included,
Though I often heard, as you did, 150
Funny rhymes to unicorn,

Yes, you know them, Vaughan and Strachan.

No, my maiden, coy and comely,
I don't want to speak of Cholmondeley.
No. Yet Froude compared with proud

Is no better than McLeod.

But mind trivial and vial,
Tripod, menial, denial,
Troll and trolley, realm and ream,

Schedule, mischief, schism, and scheme. 160

Argil, gill, Argyll, gill. Surely
May be made to rhyme with Raleigh,
But you're not supposed to say

Piquet rhymes with sobriquet.

Had this invalid invalid
Worthless documents? How pallid,
How uncouth he, couchant, looked,

When for Portsmouth I had booked!

Zeus, Thebes, Thales, Aphrodite,
Paramour, enamoured, flighty, 170
Episodes, antipodes,

Acquiesce, and obsequies.

Please don't monkey with the geyser,
Don't peel 'taters with my razor,
Rather say in accents pure:

Nature, stature and mature.

Pious, impious, limb, climb, glumly,
Worsted, worsted, crumbly, dumbly,
Conquer, conquest, vase, phase, fan,

Wan, sedan and artisan. 180

The TH will surely trouble you
More than R, CH or W.
Say then these phonetic gems:

Thomas, thyme, Theresa, Thames.

Thompson, Chatham, Waltham, Streatham,
There are more but I forget 'em -
Wait! I've got it: Anthony,

Lighten your anxiety.

The archaic word albeit
Does not rhyme with eight - you see it; 190
With and forthwith, one has voice,

One has not, you make your choice.

Shoes, goes, does [1]. Now first say: finger;
Then say: singer, ginger, linger.
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze and gauge,

Marriage, foliage, mirage, age,

Hero, heron, query, very,
Parry, tarry, fury, bury,
Dost, lost, post, and doth, cloth, loth,

Job, Job, blossom, bosom, oath. 200

Faugh, oppugnant, keen oppugners,
Bowing, bowing, banjo-tuners
Holm you know, but noes, canoes,

Puisne, truism, use, to use?

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual,
Seat, sweat, chaste, caste, Leigh, eight, height,

Put, nut, granite, and unite

Reefer does not rhyme with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer. 210
Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,

Hint, pint, senate, but sedate.

Gaelic, Arabic, pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific;
Tour, but our, dour, succour, four,

Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Say manoeuvre, yacht and vomit,
Next omit, which differs from it
Bona fide, alibi

Gyrate, dowry and awry. 220

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,

Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion,
Rally with ally; yea, ye,

Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay!

Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver. 230
Never guess - it is not safe,

We say calves, valves, half, but Ralf.

Starry, granary, canary,
Crevice, but device, and eyrie,
Face, but preface, then grimace,

Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Bass, large, target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, oust, joust, and scour, but scourging;
Ear, but earn; and ere and tear

Do not rhyme with here but heir. 240

Mind the O of off and often
Which may be pronounced as orphan,
With the sound of saw and sauce;

Also soft, lost, cloth and cross.

Pudding, puddle, putting. Putting?
Yes: at golf it rhymes with shutting.
Respite, spite, consent, resent.

Liable, but Parliament.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen, 250
Monkey, donkey, clerk and jerk,

Asp, grasp, wasp, demesne, cork, work.

A of valour, vapid, vapour,
S of news (compare newspaper),
G of gibbet, gibbon, gist,

I of antichrist and grist,

Differ like diverse and divers,
Rivers, strivers, shivers, fivers.
Once, but nonce, toll, doll, but roll,

Polish, Polish, poll and poll. 260

Pronunciation - think of Psyche! -
Is a paling, stout and spiky.
Won't it make you lose your wits

Writing groats and saying 'grits'?

It's a dark abyss or tunnel
Strewn with stones like rowlock, gunwale,
Islington, and Isle of Wight,

Housewife, verdict and indict.

Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father? 270
Finally, which rhymes with enough,

Though, through, bough, cough, hough, sough, tough??

Hiccough has the sound of sup...
My advice is: GIVE IT UP!

[1] No, you're wrong. This is the plural of doe.
38 posted on 06/04/2010 11:23:13 PM PDT by GeorgeSaden
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To: paristwelve
Well learnt Aquila. I’m an ESL teacher and I can tell you Italians learn English quick.

Shouldn't that be,

"...learn English quickly"?

39 posted on 06/04/2010 11:26:47 PM PDT by GeorgeSaden
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To: paristwelve

“So, I had a group (of brain dead oafs)at France Telcom and one of them asked me what “homophones” are, so I answered “Gay Telephones”. It seemed funny at the time. Anyway, they complained to my boss and I was pulled from the contract.”

Sounds like you made gay Paree un-gay.


40 posted on 06/04/2010 11:29:41 PM PDT by aquila48
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