FOLK LIES: Joni Mitchell Outs Bob Dylan

Big Hollywood ^ | April 28, 2010 | Jonny Whiteside

[EveningStar]

“Bob [Dylan] is not authentic at all. He’s a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I.” — Joni Mitchell, Los Angeles Times, April 22, 2010 

Caterwauling Canuck “folk singer” Joni Mitchell got just about everybody riled up with that sweet morsel of self-serving insight, but the real shock is not that Mitchell is absolutely correct but that someone finally came out and said it. After decades of carefully manicured deification by Columbia Records, brain-dead rock critics and the slimy elite institution that elevated such barely able snake-oil salesmen as Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger to celestial heights, it’s high time to flout indoctrination and examine Dylan’s track record as a Grade-A phony. 

[scott says]

Dylan Ping

[Mr. Blonde]

Metacritic

I'm not sure what you think Metacritic is exactly, apparently some Bob Dylan fan circle jerk. I don't know why. It aggregates professional reviews of music, tv shows, movies, dvds and video games. Are critics predisposed to like certain types of music and artists? Yes. However, eventually the wisdom of the crowd takes over. Love & Theft has 20 reviews from professional critics. Modern Times has 29. Surely these are not all from people who are huge Dylan fans. Surely some were reviewing it because they were paid to and came around to the quality of it and not the name on it. Together Through Life did not for instance do nearly as well in the reviews and it is not on the same level as the other two albums. Seems to work out.

There is a section for fans to rate the albums as well, but the scores come from the professional reviews.

[Verbosus]

I am second from the bottom on a list of the worst singers in the world.
Dylan is the only one below me.

[dmz]

The guy whose greatest hits were written by Albert King, Willie Dixon, Howlin Wolf,, Muddy Waters and Jack Bruce’s wife?

<><><>><

To my knowledge, Frank Sinatra has exactly zero songwriting credits to his name.

I guess he sucks, too, eh?

Not everyone is a writer. I’m not a huge, or even a big, Clapton fan, but to slam him on this count demonstrates a significant hole in your ability to assess talent.

[dmz]

I am second from the bottom on a list of the worst singers in the world.
Dylan is the only one below me.

<><><><>

LOL. You never heard my dad sing in church.

He knew he couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket, and he didn’t care. He’s singing with the Angel Band now.

[shibumi]

Just top be clear, I don’t think of Clapton as second rate. More like third. And I didn’t say that the lack of originality was the the reason for that judgement.

It is however what makes him as *performer* (much like the others you listed, but not in the same league.)

FWIW I’m glad your happy with your opinion.

[shibumi]

The “hole” is in your ability to distinguish between an artist and a performer.

[shibumi]

Sorry.

I owe you something from the last post. Here:

’ e

And I’ll take back the extra s.

[RobRoy]

>>I’ve never understood why people did NOT like Dylan.<<

Like I said, art is subjective. ;)

[RobRoy]

HA! I have that exact same bass!

[dmz]

The “hole” is in your ability to distinguish between an artist and a performer.

<><><><

Really?

Singing is not an art form? It’s just a performance? Frank Sinatra was not an artist, in your view? If that is what you are saying, I think you’ll find your supporters in that thought few and far between.

LOL. None other than Miles Davis was a huge Sinatra fan, for the way he used the human voice as an instrument, with extremely unique phrasing.

The guy who shows up at the VFW doing a Sinatra schtick is a performer, as are Clapton cover bands. Sinatra is an artist. So is Clapton. You don’t have to like them to recognize it as true. There’s plenty of art I don’t care for, doesn’t change what it is.

[dmz]

Like I said, art is subjective. ;)

<><><><><><

Which is why our conversation is so darn civil.

The problem children are those who suggest that, because they don’t like someone/something, it is objectively bad. A few are posting on this very thread.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"I’m glad your happy with your opinion."

As you note, everyone has an opinion. If you don't like Clapton, so be it. However, to sit here and denigrate him because he doesn't write a lot of his own music is silly. Considering so many great musicians don't. He claims to be an artist, he claims to be a musician, he claims to be a performer. There's nothing wrong with that. He never claimed to be anything else.

As for breaking new ground and boundries, the stuff he did with distortion etc.. and bringing the blues to people who had never heard of Robert Johnson was all good stuff. And he did write at least one decent song, "Tears in Heaven". I doubt JJ Cale complained that Clapton sung "After Midnight" and "Cocaine". He probably thanked him for all of those royalty checks. If you want to rip on Clapton, rip on him for "I shot the sherrif". A terrible injustice to Bob Marley's great tune.

[tsomer]

To my knowledge, Frank Sinatra has exactly zero songwriting credits to his name.

You know, I think we could divide our parent's generation into two camps: The Franks on one side, and the Bings on the other.

[dmz]

Might be a good idea to back in time, as well, to the days of Derek and the Dominos. Now that is one fine record (Rolling Stone has it as #115 of the top 500 albums of all time), with great playing from both Eric and Duane Allman.

Oh, and Clapton has writing credits on fully half of the record.

[dfwgator]

That was before Clapton thought doing records with Babyface was a good idea.

[tsomer]

If you want to rip on Clapton, rip on him for "I shot the sheriff". A terrible injustice to Bob Marley's great tune.

I've always felt the same way, but I'm not sure: did Marley receive no royalties from Clapton.

I read his autobiography. He comes off as a basically decent guy, and he gives credit where credits due: he recently toured with Cale, as if to redress a debt.

I mostly credit him for being at the right place at the right time: Jack Bruce drove Cream's sound; if I hear "Layla" one more time I'll scream, but much of the success of that record goes to D. Allman. The thing about his covers of JJ Cale and "I Shot..."-- the originals sound much better.

Nevertheless, he knows a good thing when he hears it.

[dmz]

Showing my age mode /on

I don’t even know who Babyface is.

[swarthyguy]

>rip on Clapton

After his publicised detox(heroin, booze) phase in the 80’s, IIRC, or early 90’s perhaps, he then made a series of commercials for Michelob!

[dmz]

JJ Cale was able to live the life he wanted, playing music just as he wanted to, as a direct result of Clapton and others recording his songs.

Eric need redress no wrongs done to JJ, as he did not wrong him. In all likelihood, Eric did JJ a favor, by ensuring regular royalty checks so he didn’t have to tour all the time like most rockers do.