Which brand of Generator do you prefer? (We have heard that CAT and ONAN are the bes).
Which fuel would you prefer? (We have Natural gas hook up......father in law wants us to have dual fuel).
What type of setup would you use? (battery bank? dual fuel? tie in to grid?)
Thanks for any comments or suggestions!
As always,
FReegards!
DCB
Talk to Caterpillar, Allison, and ONAN. They will give you good advice.
Your fuel choices are basically natural gas, propane, gasoline or diesel. I think you can get generators that will work on any of those but you need to choose fuel up front.
I have 2.
A Coleman 1800 watt Powermate and a Champion 3500 watter.
I got the Coleman first at a hock shop (a couple weeks after a pretty heavy storm) for 150 bucks.
It can run lights, tv, coffee maker, but the problem is it will run the fridge OR the freezer - but not both.
So about 2 years back I got the Champion which is plenty to run pretty much my whole place.
Of course, with any generator, make sure the oil is always good, and if you leave it sitting for long stretches, drain the gas.
I generally start mine about 3 times a year just to make sure they get warmed up and run good. Put a load on it check it out then shut em down.
BTW, get a can of starter fluid and set it right next to the generator. When you’re cold and/or tired the last thing you want to do is have to mess with it!
And like I said, you can sometimes get some really good deals if you troll the hock shops.
1. Figure out what you would need to survive for 1-3 days.
2. Figure out what you would lose money on in such a situation. In an emergency you should be prepared to absorb some losses... it's life that you must preserve, not luxuries. The ice cream can be replaced. You might need the beef, though.
In general, you can run a few lights with any generator. Beyond that, you should probably add up your Fridge and freezers to the extent necessary to support survival. Even portable heaters consume HIGH wattage, but at least one is needed in winter (figure 1500-1800 watts for that alone)... don't plan to try and run a heat pump in winter or summer. If you are on a well, you should have a means to connect the pump for water. For cooking, I'd go with the outdoor grill.
That's really about it.
Go with a gas generator - generally 3000 to 6000 watts. Propane or Nat Gas models are available, but you have to have a reliable source of whatever fuel you need... which might be tricky in emergency situations.
One more note: if you're trying to run a bunch of devices at once, you'll need extension cords and splitters that can handle the amps... but generators usually only support 2-6 devices at once, and that's a reasonable guideline to work within... don't go nuts or you'll have a fire hazard on top of everything else.
You could run the refrigerator on this, assuming it draws about 400 watts:
http://www.powerenz.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=156
Thing is under your scenario it might be a good idea to have four of them so you cycle them as power is drawn from reserves and you can charge the others when daylight permits.
Cost? More than $5000 ea or more than $20,000 total.
Who needs a fridge in gird down anyway? Better to prepare using foods that do not require refrigeration before use.
Another idea is this and it costs less than $60 bucks per unit to make and always cools food.
The Zeer Pot - a Nigerian invention keeps food fresh without electricity
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/september/refrigeration.htm
Dual NG/LP generator sounds like what will fill your needs.
Run on the NG but have a full LP tank for when the NG is dirupted.
By using gas you will not have to worry about keeping your fuel fresh and stable. Much less maintenance.
If you want a generator for everything, plan on having very big fuel consumption. Look up the fuel consumption on the unit you want and plan accordingly. You don’t need to run everything at once, rotate your power usage.
We have power outages almost every winter and are expecting a large earthquake (50% chance of 9.0 in next 50 years) which we are told could have us without power for up to three months. A friend went to a stationary propane generator because we do not have natural gas here.
I found this and it looks pretty good. Not as expensive as I thought it might be. I’m guessing the installation shouldn’t cost more than a few hundred. The point about having to spend extra $ on your electric bill to keep the engine oil warm in the winter is a good one, but in Arkansas, you may not need it most of the time.
http://www.norwall.com/product_info.php?cPath=17&products_id=702
If you play your cards right, maybe Obama will give you big subsidy to build a mini-nuclear power plant in your back yard and you can sell power back to the grid. The Chinese likely would be happy to float the $25 million loan needed, as this investment would be a way better risk than Uncle Sam.
http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html
I don’t know about your location, but the average cost of residential electricity was 12¢/kWh (DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html) in the U.S. in April 2009. The average household used 920 kWh/mo. in 2008 (DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/esr/table5.html) and would pay about $110 for it based on the average rate.
Mini-nuclear power plants will cost 10 cents per kWh.
These puppies generate 25MW, so every hour, they are capable of producing energy for $500 less than the average cost: so even if you sold your energy back to the grid at 11 cents per kWh, you’d make $6,000 a day in pure profit!
I had a neighbor who was nursing an invalid wife. After fumbling with portable gas powered generators for several seasons he purchased a whole-house system. I believe it was a 14k output (which I admit is not the same as full load capability from the pole).
As I recall it was an Onan and was natural gas powered. Fully automatic, there were no switches to throw or pull starters to yank. I believe that he paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $16k for the whole system.
He demonstrated the system for me. Ramp-up and crossover was flawless and accomplished in seconds. The net effect of degraded capacity in the household is minimal - unless you’re a power hog ;)
A great alternative if you plan on being in the home long enough to realize some of the benefits of the extra expense.
Also - be aware that there are seismic shutoff valves available for natural gas installations. Not a bad idea if you live in an earthquake-prone area.
Marked for hubby to read.
Like was mentioned, do you have a rough budget in mind?
With the economy as it is, you might be able to find some nice used industrial/rental diesel generators for cheap.
A quick search at United Rentals site shows several in the 19-30 kW range around $7-8,000.
http://ur.rousesales.com/EquipmentItem.aspx?id=3391976
But, with diesel you need a new fuel storage tank, block heater (or glow plugs), etc.
Good luck.
...at the very least I would get the most quiet portable generator(5000W+)I could find...and have a transfer switch installed.
Remember gasoline/diesel gen's are fine....so long as you have a gas station nearby who's not experiencing the power outage also...if that's the case, and you're looking at a long term power-outage, be ready to drive long distances.....and wait in line....IF you're lucky enough to find one open w/fuel.
If you are in Arkansas, you must be prepared to burn wood since the supply is endless. I have only a honda gas generator that would only run a small portion of my house, but is enough for the vitals.
DCBryan1,
I initially used a 5 Kw Gasoline Generator, but, it was not enough, especially for the 3/4 H.P. well water motor, and/or Refrigerator, and other associated items. I would have to go and re-set it a various times, including middle of the night. because the breaker would be tripped. It was, also, tough to start the cold motor, on the generator. My wife could not do it herself, and even the electric start, if you had not used it in months, would not turn over the motor, easily.
So, I purchased a 15 KW Guardian Generator a few years ago. I had it installed, with Automatic Transfer Switch, and hooked up to (2) two 200 gallon Propane Fuel Tanks, which I also use for Hot Water and Heat.
The Automatic Transfer Switch, when it senses that the main power has been cutoff for 1 minute, it automatically shuts off the mainline electric and switches to the Gas Generator, which automatically starts on it own. Also, the Auto Transfer Switch, senses power has been restored by the Electric Company, shuts off the generator, and returns to mainline electric power. You don’t have to do anything.
Also, once per week the Gas Generator will turn on automatically, and run for about 15 minutes and then turn off, just to keep things running smoothly.
I figured the 15 Kw Generator, with 400 gallons of Propane Gas, which I never let it get down less than 50 gallons, would give me 2-3 weeks of continous run time on the generator.
If I have to, I can have the Propane Tanks filled up within 24 hours, by the local company.
Cost, Installed for all this, around $6,000.00
Now, if I am not home, my wife has no problem during electric power shutoffs.
No need to try to run an oven or kitchen electrics from the generator. Use your exterior gas grille (three or four extra canisters of gas).
2. Depending on house layout, try to choose one or two rooms to close off and service.
Careful use of small space heaters will work. Two or three lamps. TV. Run other items while turning off these. Such as bottle warmer for infant, electric grill, coffee maker, hair dryer can be run while lamps/tv are off.
3. Problem of refrigerator and water heater. Depending on sizes and electrical issues, you should consult an electrician.
I ended up with two Honda diesel generators. One for refrigerator and other items that needed to run full time, and a second to operate intermittently.
6500 should do on one, and 5000 on the other.
Diesel fuel will have a longer shelf life.
Batteries, natural gas, other options don't afford the ease or surety of operation.
Spread around your dependency.
Good luck.
A Natural Gas generator would be the think if you have NG service. Quite and less service.
I’d buy what the pros buy.
Sorry to the Generac, Honda, Cat folks...
The largest hospitals in Houston during a Hurricane, used Kohler, the Police, Fire, 911, EMS, Buildings large and small all around Houston during Hurricane IKE used Kohler.
Just my 2 cents. If you want pro level durable solutions, get what they get. And PAY for the maintenance agreement under contract. When everyone in town needed repairs only the folks that had a contract got serviced first. Everyone else went to the back of the list and it was a long list in during the aftermath of a hurricane.
Diesel is probably the best solution, unless you have a gas feed that is reliable.
AND FOLLOW the operation instructions. If it says REST IT after 8 hours you better do it! Those that didn’t during the hurricane paid a price for not following the instructions. Get it professionally installed.
Hard lessons from a place where city wide in many places we were without power for 2 weeks here.
Looks like she already does run everything (by the way, I can relate).
Two important questions:
Do you have a well and do you want water? If yes, what are the requirements of the pumps and controllers? 3-phase?
Do you want to run a computer or appliances, including a modern well control, that have chips or printed circuit boards without destroying them? Conditioned power generators cost more.
The motor will probably be 4 cylinders and water cooled. You can get them to run on the dual fuels of natural gas and LP. You'll have to decide on how long an outage of commercial electricity (and/or natural gas) you wish to endure, in order to determine the size of your on-site fuel storage. One nice thing about LP is that it'll keep for a long time, in contrast to gasoline.
Bear in mind that the more peak load you expect, the larger the generator has to be; and this in turn makes it fuel-hungry even when you minimize the load in an attempt to economize.
[[Come to think of it, this might make an argument for two smaller generators, so that you can run on one of them most of the time, and enjoy greater fuel economy. You might consider buying a smaller one that's adequate for you minimum needs, and adding an auxiliary in the future, to handle the larger loads like A/C or electric appliances. The railroads are beginning to have locomotives built with multiple smaller motors, for the sake of economy of both fuel and maintenance, BTW.]]
Generac is sold in some of the chain stores, and they have a brochure explaining how to size the generator to your usage, and how much fuel it will consume. They probably have the same information on line.
The other thing to consider, as you may alrady have done, is your other utilities. How do you provide for water and wastewater, and how do cook and heat water? The natural gas/LP combo can help with your other heating needs also--for a price.