Posted on 04/05/2010 7:40:19 AM PDT by DCBryan1
Freepers: The new wife has given me a new "honey do" list. Included, in this quarter's budget is to install a backup generator in our somewhat remote home.
We have a 4k sq/ft home in Arkansas, and her criteria is to be able to run everything in the house if the power goes out. We are next to the last connection on a long line down a valley, down by the river and can expect a long power outage if we get tornados, storms, ice, etc.
We are expecting our first child, and I think that a good standby generator would be a good investment given our location.
I don't want to list all of our appliances, normal for most households, but we do have x2 freezers, and I have a small machine shop and a small wood working shop, and a koi pond. I understand that we will not be using everything at once, but would like a very capable generator.
I don’t remember. It was 17 years ago and I wasn’t a lead engineer.
Dual NG/LP generator sounds like what will fill your needs.
Run on the NG but have a full LP tank for when the NG is dirupted.
By using gas you will not have to worry about keeping your fuel fresh and stable. Much less maintenance.
If you want a generator for everything, plan on having very big fuel consumption. Look up the fuel consumption on the unit you want and plan accordingly. You don’t need to run everything at once, rotate your power usage.
We have power outages almost every winter and are expecting a large earthquake (50% chance of 9.0 in next 50 years) which we are told could have us without power for up to three months. A friend went to a stationary propane generator because we do not have natural gas here.
I found this and it looks pretty good. Not as expensive as I thought it might be. I’m guessing the installation shouldn’t cost more than a few hundred. The point about having to spend extra $ on your electric bill to keep the engine oil warm in the winter is a good one, but in Arkansas, you may not need it most of the time.
http://www.norwall.com/product_info.php?cPath=17&products_id=702
If you play your cards right, maybe Obama will give you big subsidy to build a mini-nuclear power plant in your back yard and you can sell power back to the grid. The Chinese likely would be happy to float the $25 million loan needed, as this investment would be a way better risk than Uncle Sam.
http://www.physorg.com/news145561984.html
I don’t know about your location, but the average cost of residential electricity was 12¢/kWh (DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html) in the U.S. in April 2009. The average household used 920 kWh/mo. in 2008 (DOE: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/esr/table5.html) and would pay about $110 for it based on the average rate.
Mini-nuclear power plants will cost 10 cents per kWh.
These puppies generate 25MW, so every hour, they are capable of producing energy for $500 less than the average cost: so even if you sold your energy back to the grid at 11 cents per kWh, you’d make $6,000 a day in pure profit!
The only reason you you would have a 200 amp service is if you have an electric stove, clothes dryer and water heater.
Many services are 100 amp, and most could run on 50 amp.
Getting a generator of more than 5 or 6 KW starts to be expensive.
Generac does not have a very good reputation in motor homes.
I know someone who repairs motor home generators and he says most he repairs are Generac.
I had a neighbor who was nursing an invalid wife. After fumbling with portable gas powered generators for several seasons he purchased a whole-house system. I believe it was a 14k output (which I admit is not the same as full load capability from the pole).
As I recall it was an Onan and was natural gas powered. Fully automatic, there were no switches to throw or pull starters to yank. I believe that he paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $16k for the whole system.
He demonstrated the system for me. Ramp-up and crossover was flawless and accomplished in seconds. The net effect of degraded capacity in the household is minimal - unless you’re a power hog ;)
A great alternative if you plan on being in the home long enough to realize some of the benefits of the extra expense.
Also - be aware that there are seismic shutoff valves available for natural gas installations. Not a bad idea if you live in an earthquake-prone area.
I’d be all for using solar to help take the load of a generator charging a battery array, but I’m not going to spend the bucks on one of those things. You want me to spend $20k on those wimpy solar things, but think I need to be a billionaire to spend $15k on a whole house genset?
I’d love to have one or two of those solar things around for a SHTF event, but they’d have to come down quite a bit in price.
Regardless of what size you get, get a propane or diesel powered unit. For the sizes mentioned above, (10Kw+) the amount of fuel you go through will be substantial. A buried 500 gallon propane or diesel tank is much safer than a buried gasoline tank, plus gasoline degrades much faster than diesel or propane. I think 90 days or so for gasoline, without using additional stabilizers.
Another reason not to use gasoline ; it’s hard to buy without paying road taxes. Red diesel and delivered propane don’t usually include road taxes in their price.
I got a small about 1.5 cubic foot fridge at a yard sale last summer. Old GE, probably 25 years old, but it’s built like a Sherman tank!
I think it only draws about 100 watts.
I use it for my beer (I brew at home) but if I needed to take some of the stuff out of my main fridge for any reason, heck, it would keep the stuff good and cold!
Marked for hubby to read.
The good stuff being the beer I presume. Good strategy, though scotch requires no refrigeration. LOL
I home brew also, and need the fridge on ;)
I also have x2 freezers....one to hold meat, and the other to hold all my bee hive frames of honey and beer yeast ;)
If the SHTF, I have ammo, beer, and honey !
Like was mentioned, do you have a rough budget in mind?
With the economy as it is, you might be able to find some nice used industrial/rental diesel generators for cheap.
A quick search at United Rentals site shows several in the 19-30 kW range around $7-8,000.
http://ur.rousesales.com/EquipmentItem.aspx?id=3391976
But, with diesel you need a new fuel storage tank, block heater (or glow plugs), etc.
Good luck.
Most of the time, I brew Stout.
Stuff is pretty sturdy, and it’s great at just about any temp.
So I can bring the beers out and they won’t suffer.
...at the very least I would get the most quiet portable generator(5000W+)I could find...and have a transfer switch installed.
Remember gasoline/diesel gen's are fine....so long as you have a gas station nearby who's not experiencing the power outage also...if that's the case, and you're looking at a long term power-outage, be ready to drive long distances.....and wait in line....IF you're lucky enough to find one open w/fuel.
Her budget is $10k, but if I give up some things we can stretch up to $15k"ish". $20k if we go to Ramen noodles for the rest of 2010.
If you are in Arkansas, you must be prepared to burn wood since the supply is endless. I have only a honda gas generator that would only run a small portion of my house, but is enough for the vitals.
DCBryan1,
I initially used a 5 Kw Gasoline Generator, but, it was not enough, especially for the 3/4 H.P. well water motor, and/or Refrigerator, and other associated items. I would have to go and re-set it a various times, including middle of the night. because the breaker would be tripped. It was, also, tough to start the cold motor, on the generator. My wife could not do it herself, and even the electric start, if you had not used it in months, would not turn over the motor, easily.
So, I purchased a 15 KW Guardian Generator a few years ago. I had it installed, with Automatic Transfer Switch, and hooked up to (2) two 200 gallon Propane Fuel Tanks, which I also use for Hot Water and Heat.
The Automatic Transfer Switch, when it senses that the main power has been cutoff for 1 minute, it automatically shuts off the mainline electric and switches to the Gas Generator, which automatically starts on it own. Also, the Auto Transfer Switch, senses power has been restored by the Electric Company, shuts off the generator, and returns to mainline electric power. You don’t have to do anything.
Also, once per week the Gas Generator will turn on automatically, and run for about 15 minutes and then turn off, just to keep things running smoothly.
I figured the 15 Kw Generator, with 400 gallons of Propane Gas, which I never let it get down less than 50 gallons, would give me 2-3 weeks of continous run time on the generator.
If I have to, I can have the Propane Tanks filled up within 24 hours, by the local company.
Cost, Installed for all this, around $6,000.00
Now, if I am not home, my wife has no problem during electric power shutoffs.
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