Posted on 12/27/2009 7:35:20 PM PST by wheathead
My wife bought me a hunting rifle for Christmas. Actually, she gave me "permission".( haha) I already have a nice assortment of shotguns and .22's. I'm looking for a drop and stop rifle. One that will drop a deer and stop an "evil-doer". So, what should I get???
Yes you. I stopped by the local shop today to buy a SU-16, but they didn’t have one. Tuesday I’ll go to the next closest shop as they are a Kel-Tec dealer. I’ve done a lot of research on the 16, and I’m convinced, determined, and tenacious enough to get one. One thing I have learned is gas piston AR’s=$1500. No brainer for my budget. Thanks again for the tip!!
So will your 45 ACP round...;) Four insulated, double-drywall walls penetrated by all common semi-auto pistol rounds.
Even shotguns will penetrate easily through 4 walls. Meaning that if you're going to fire inside a house you WILL penetrate the walls inside your house. Don't count on them for cover; they are concealment only.
Which is why I do NOT advocate shotguns for use inside; in most houses the aiming distances will be so short that they have very little spread meaning they must be aimed as carefully as a rifle or pistol, they will penetrate through your house (think about all directions you could shoot - are there more than 4 walls between you and the outside?), they are incredibly noisy, low ammo capacity (even a single-stack 1911 has equals the highest-capacity pumps), and very long and heavy. And kick like a mule.
For inside the home defense, give me a good high capacity pistol or a pistol-caliber carbine. I want lots of shots that I can use, and I want lower recoil, noise, and flash to combat. Yes, I will penetrate walls, but so will my shotgun. I'd rather have 19+ rounds on tap with a 2 second reload rather than 8 with a 15 second reload.
My personal home defense is a Kel Tec SUB 2000 carbine. Almost no recoil from the 115 grain 9mm hollow points it fires, very quiet and low flash from that long 16" barrel, and that same barrel gives that "weak" 9mm round the same energy as a 357 Magnum. It's light (5 pounds, 4 ounces with a full 33 round magazine), very maneuverable (16" barrel, total 32.5" length), and very high capacity (Glock 33 round 9mm magazine).
Will one shot stop a man? Well, the 357 Magnum is pretty much the king of one-shot-stop pistols, and I'm there in terms of energy. And I don't have to really be miserly with my shots, not with 33 in the magazine and another magazine just a 2 second change away. A good, liberal application of hot lead is a great defense!
“in most houses the aiming distances will be so short that they have very little spread”
Not if you have a rifled barrel
Wow Postal, what an awesome response. Which do you prefer for the 100 to 200 yard range. Also I don’t really know what the difference is between a red dot being 1 MOA and 5 MOA at 100 yards. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Mossburg's Persuader is an awesome shotgun for home defense, as is the Remington 870.
For deer hunting, try to get yourself a Remington 700 rifle in the 30.06 caliber since you are on a budget.
Well, for deer a .308 is good. For evildoer duty, you need more detail. Home defense? You already got the shotguns. Use a rifle for home defense and you’ll probably kill your neighbor instead.
>>Remington 700 chambered in .308
2nd this.
It’s basically what our military is using. See here:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m40.htm
There are almost limitless mods for this platform.
It’s on my “to buy” list.
I hear rifes are very popular.
Which is why I keep it loaded with safety slugs.
For inside the home defense, give me a good high capacity pistol or a pistol-caliber carbine.
But dont forget our fellow Freeper wants a gun to do double duty. He wants to hunt deer. For that he needs a rifle or shot gun. I dont know of any state that would let you hunt with your choice of home defense weapon.
Wow. Kind of like asking, how long is a piece of string?
For new...Savage, Remington, and Mossberg all have sporting or hunting “package” type deals within your price range. Typically, these are synthetic stocked, bolt-action, 22” barrels and some kind of bore-sighted scope. Some may even include swivels and slings.
Typical caliber offerings:
.223, .243, .270, .308, .30-06, and usually 300 win mag, & 7mm mag.
If KS allows semi-automatic rifles for large game, then that opens the door for AK variants in your price range, including Saigas. These can be had in calibers including Soviet 7.62x39 (ballistically similar to a .30-30) 5.45x39 (ballistically similar to a .223) as well as .223 and .308.
Then there’s the mil-surp options.
Bolt actions - Swiss K31’s in 7.5 Swiss very accurate, Mosin Nagant 91/30 in 7.62x54R (between a .308 and .30-06 and ammo is dirt cheap), 8mm Mausers, and .303 Enfields to name a few...
Semi-automatics - Spanish Cetme in .308, SKS in 7.62x39, and PSL-54 in 7.62x54r. All of these can be had for your $600.00 mark assuming of course it’s legal to hunt with them.
It’s tough to make a bad selection with any new rifle (which is why you pay more for them.)
Whatever you get, practice, practice, practice.
30-06. Will take down pretty much any game animal in North America.
Someone above mentioned the Howa. Give em a look. I’ve been using my Howa 1500 since I was 16 so twenty one years now. Got a few other rifles since then but I always end up taking the Howa hunting even though I have more expensive rifles available.
I almost got a boner from that video.
The truth is, no one needs it.
Get an old faithful American standard...a lever action 30-30. Its been dropping deer for 100 + yrs.
Easy to shoot. Accurate out to 100 yards. Cheap to feed. Built tough. Its darn good as a home protection weapon also. Fast to aim and shoot.
i found this at Cabella’s for 539$. 30-06.
Savage Arms Package Series Bolt-Action Rifle/ Scope Combos
$539.99
Overall Customer Rating:
5 out of 5
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Save time, effort and money with hunting rifle/scope combo
Includes a 3-9x40mm scope mounted and boresighted
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Save time, effort and money by getting a great hunting rifle/scope combination. Your rifle arrives with a variable-power 3-9x40mm scope already mounted and boresighted. All you need to do is sight-in at the range and you’ll be ready to hunt. This rifle features the famous Savage AccuTrigger that you can adjust to your desired pull pressure. Its weatherproof black synthetic stock has positive checking and dual-pillar bedding. The blued barrel is free-floating and button-rifled for optimal accuracy. Top-loading internal box magazine. Nylon sling and sling swivel studs included.
Nice, looks like Marlin has a Model 1894 that’d work.
Lots of great responses here.
Your budget limits my ability to be of much help when you factor in optics, as I think one should.
I’ve always been partial to .308s, especially M1As. Fairly familiar with AK-47s and related stuff as well, and they might make an affordable alternative (although the optics then become even MORE important, IMHO).
Whatever you get, get good with it!
If you want to reduce your risk of overpenetration in a home defense situation, learn to shoot better. - Caleb @ Call Me Ahab
Additionally, the effectiveness of a shotty is the mass of lead it puts out; each pellet by itself is pretty weak, it's when they are combined on-target that they are devastating. For example, consider this little excerpt from some 12GA research:
This puts the effectiveness of each pellet of #4 buck at about the .22 rimfire level and 00 buckshot at the muzzle somewhere between that of the .32 ACP and .380 ACP cartridges, none of which any serious person will bet their life upon.
So spread your shot, miss 70% of the time, and maybe get two or three 32 ACP rounds into your target (and who knows where in the target - anywhere from the head to the thighs because of the spread).
And you still have to deal with the recoil, the flash, the concussion, the noise and the low round count. I believe most people will be better served by something easier to wield, easier to reload, less disruptive when firing (firing at an indoor range is one thing; firing inside a 10x12 room is radically different - louder, brighter, stronger all around), and carries a LOT more rounds.
Because the fact is you will miss a lot - count on it. Trained police officers and soldiers miss somewhere North of 75% when in a firefight; don't think you can do better than those under constant threat. Expect that you will miss with 75% of your shots; suddenly being stuck with 7 or 8 shells of 00 gets you REALLY down on what you can actually expect to get on-target.
No, I believe most people are better served with lots of rounds of light recoil bullets, and liberal application of those same rounds. Don't stop until the target is not moving. That's a lot easier to do with a 33 round magazine than with an 8 shot magazine.
Red dots are great for anti-personnel use; a 5 MOA spot will get you about 5” groups minimum at 100 yards (since that’s as big as your spot is). Plenty good enough for wet-work. But if you want to hunt or do any target shooting, get a good scope.
I have a Barska 2X red dot and a Bushnell 3-9x50 for my SU-16 that I use depending upon what I’m trying to do. For fast/fun/personnel type practice, or sitting at home, it’s the Barska. For serious target shooting (varmint or paper) it’s the Bushnell.
Can’t beat em for the money.
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