Portland has 19th worst traffic (Seattle is worst, LA #2 according to TomTom report)

Portland Business Journal ^ | December 3, 2009

[Stoat]

Portland has the 19th worst traffic congestion in the country, with 23 percent of the city’s roads having “heavy delays,” according to a report released Wednesday.

Seattle’s road woes are the worst, followed by Los Angeles at No. 2, with 38 percent of its roads having heavy delays, followed by Chicago (37 percent), San Francisco (35 percent) and New York City (31 percent), according to global positioning system (GPS) company TomTom of Concord, Mass.

The company ranked cities as most to least congested according to how fast cars could travel on the street network. Traffic was defined as congested if drivers could travel at only 70 percent or less of the posted speed limit, and an average hour-long commute included 20 minutes or more of significant delays, according to TomTom.

Of the 30 major cities included in the study, Minneapolis had the least-congested streets, with only 17 percent.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

This is why a 12 minute trip by car took me 45 min to an hour by 2/3 buses.

Well, if you live in Portland, you know that there are (1) walking places, (2) bike riding places, (3) public transportation riding places, and then (4) car driving places.

And being a Portlander -- you will be adept at all four of them, knowing exactly when and where for all of them... :-)

And if you don't know all four of them, you're simply not a Portlander... it's as simple as that...

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

Yeah lots of foot traffic. Wouldn’t be so bad if every other person wasn’t some kind of a panhandler.

Hey! You're talking to a Portlander, and I know that's not true... LOL...

I know it's fun to exaggerate and perhaps many people do know that already, that this is what you're doing to emphasize a point. But, there are many who have absolutely no clue what downtown Portland is like, and they will never see another inner-core big metropolitan city like this in the nation.

I've been to many of them (try LA, Denver, Santa Fe [not so big there, though... :-)], Miami, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, San Francisco, Seattle, Kansas City, Springfield, MO, New Orleans, Little Rock, Memphis, St. Louis, to name a few) and Portland is completely different and is definitely a "walking town" to be sure. That's what I've always called it.

You will pass 1,000 people on the streets in Portland and you'll probably never hear but one panhandler come up and talk to you... LOL...

That does remind me of a story that happened to me one time. There was a guy walking in downtown Portland and was waiting at the same light as I was, and he asked me for some money for gas, as he and his family got stranded and needed gas money. His wife and kids were in the car. The thing that made this one more unique was that he was carrying around a red gas can when he was doing this.

Okay, that was one day. The next day, this same guy happened to be by me at another street light waiting again, and he asked me the same thing. Well, I asked, "Weren't you the same guy who asked me that yesterday at another street light?!" LOL...

Well, he very quickly moved on, never saying a word to me and asked someone else for some "gas money"... :-)

Heck! One time when I was in Miami, I was driving around in the evening and stopped at a red light and someone came rushing up and started washing my front window of my car... whoa! I said to myself, "What is going on?"

And I just sat there, sorta stunned and then when he was finished, he came over and asked for a dollar... LOL...

There you go... it's the society we live in, and has nothing to do with the city you're in.

In Tulsa, by the way, you can exit off the freeway exit ramps and at the light (in the neighborhood streets) there is someone there with a sign, sitting there, asking for help. I see the same guy there all the time (and also see others in different places, all the time, too).

What you're talking about is something in our society, not something in "Portland"... LOL...

[Scutter]

This is complete and utter bullshit. I moved out to Seattle from Atlanta. I recently went back to Atlanta to spend Thanksgiving with my and my wife’s family. While there, I was reminded just how horrible the traffic in Atlanta is. Everything is spread out, and the odds of you encountering bumper to bumper, stop and go traffic on the way to wherever you are going are near 100%. The impact of the traffic is HUGE. You will be sitting in it for 20-30 minutes.

Contrast this with Seattle. Yes, I-5 has traffic. But it moves along and is seldom stop and go. Rhe distances you have to travel here are far less. I don’t get very frustrated with Seattle traffic, but I was extremely frustrated with Atlanta traffic while I was there. MUCH worse.

My trips anywhere in Seattle or the surrounds are seldom more than 25 minutes. In Atlanta, when I lived what was considered close to work,I couldn’t even get to work at 6am in under 35 minutes. When I lived in the suburbs and worked downtown, it took me over an hour to get to work.

So I would say Tom Tom needs a way to measure traffic that takes actual trip times into account, rather than just some silly measurement of how many roads show up with traffic alerts on their GPS system.

[Scutter]

No WAY is it worse than LA. I drove through LA at 6am many years ago (on my way to start a trip across the country), and sat in stop and go traffic for 1.5 hours. I’ve never encountered something like that in Seattle. Not once.

[radiohead]

We weren’t Portlanders, we were Seattlelites. And I was a grad student w/o a car and not planning on getting a car, so public trans (which the Seattlelites think is wonderful but doesn’t compare to what we had back east) was the only choice.

Skywalk was born in Portland, and tho we weren’t there long, I remember it as a lovely city. Took the bus there, too. : )

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

Skywalk was born in Portland, and tho we weren’t there long, I remember it as a lovely city. Took the bus there, too. : )

Yep, I remember when they had different bus systems (i.e., different independent companies), before Tri-Met, which consolidated it all. It was not as easy to get around back then.

In the over 40 years there, I've been on foot, on the bike, in the car, on the bus and on the MAX... :-)

And I like all of those modes... (and I've been known to use at least three of those modes, all in one trip, at one time... LOL...)

[votemout]

I would think that LA has dense traffic over a wider area than any other region or metropolitan area. LA is a huge area of you run from San Bernardino to Castaic to the Ocean and down to Irvine and commute traffic everywhere.

[Clinging Bitterly]

Yeah the stranded need gas money thing is popular in places around here too and there are two people who have played that line in West Eugene for a few years. It's funny when the same guy comes up multiple times with the same story. “Man, you haven't scored that gas money yet? It's been two months, you coulda walked all the way to New frickin York by now”.

Say what you want, but when we go to downtown Portland we see wall to wall panhandlers and I don't know how anyone can deny that. I will say most of them are up front - they just ask for money without trying to play a sob story - but they are there, every bus stop, every Max stop, and all of the square. Back in the day it was winos at Third & Burn, but I guess you could say it has been “dispersed”, both in location and intoxicant of choice.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

Say what you want, but when we go to downtown Portland we see wall to wall panhandlers and I don't know how anyone can deny that.

Well..., I'm from Portland (not there now, though) and I can deny that. I didn't say that there were no panhandlers, as I pointed out that story... LOL... It's just that they're nowhere near the "wall-to-wall" description... :-)

Now, let me point out what else you might see in downtown Portland. For a while there was "statue man" who would stand there, motionless and be painted in all one color, making out like a statue, and there would be a cup there for you to drop money into it, if you wanted.

And then, there might be a guitar player or two, with their guitar case open on the sidewalk and playing it while people dropped money into it. And I've seen violin players, trumpet players and accordian players, too... :-)

One time (and I think it was during Christmas, they had a group of guys pounding on plastic five-gallon buckets, turned upside-down, doing them like a drum set. They were actually pretty darned good and had quite a rythm going.

Over by Powell's Bookstore, maybe you'll have a guy in a wheelchair sitting there for handouts, and perhaps over by the downtown library you might see someone panhandling out in front.

But, you won't necessarily see anyone panhandling around Pioneer Square, as there are police around (or guards hired by the downtown merchants) who keep that pretty straight. And also, around in downtown Portland I always saw a lot of police presence -- on bikes or cars or horses or walking. So, you don't see trouble around there in downtown Portland and the merchants want to keep it that way, because people do come into downtown Portland during the day and evenings for business and/or pleasure or shopping -- as there's a whole lot to do in downtown Portland.

So, no, there's not trouble in downtown Portland and if there is any panhandling (which there is anywhere and there is some in Portland), they also know to not be aggressive, too, as there is an aggressive panhandling law and they know they can get in trouble for it and the police will be down on them in a flash, too... :-)

On top of the pandhandlers, you will also get the Christian street preachers, too. And actually, to tell you the truth, I don't mind the panhandlers at all, or the musicians or the "mimes" or the Christian street preachers. I sometimes talk to each and/or all of them, from time to time.... :-)

BUT, I will tell you about one time I was already in a bad mood one day when one panhandler came up to me. I was coming out of an apartment building across from the First Presbyterian Church in downtown Portland (the one with the tall spiky/pointy roof that goes up really high in the skyline (over by around 10th and Alder, I think). My car was parked across the street on the church side of the street and I just got in, when I spotted a panhandler making a "bee-line" straight for me. He didn't have to say anything because I knew what was coming next. I just blurted out (and I never do this, either...) -- I yelled, before he even got to me or said even one word, "DON'T EVEN TRY!!" LOL...

He stopped dead in his tracks, half-way across the street and turned around and walked back over to where he was before and never said a thing... :-)

I sorta surprised myself with those words coming out of my mouth, and I've never done that again. But, I kinda laughed at how it all "came down" when I thought about it again, later on. He just stopped dead in the middle of the street, swiveled around and went back without saying one word to me... :-)

[Clinging Bitterly]

The hotel and shopping center door people do a good job keeping their property clear and yeah, there was nobody hanging around outside of Saks and a couple guys would go out and sweep the Hilton property every few minutes. Likewise most of the other places like that, but the public thoroughfares, the Pioneer Square you describe isn't what I see, not to mention every transit stop.

And I dunno, what is aggressive? When they shout at you as you walk by, when they walk up to you, or do they have to put a knife in your gut or something? Sorry, but we couldn't walk a block without encountering one, and often two or three beggars. That's wall to wall in my book.

[RinaseaofDs]

I grew up in the East Bay during the 70’s really. CA was truly golden. U system was the envy of the world. Salad bowl of the world. Still had aviation manufacturing.

Howard Jarvis fired the shot across the bow. Prop 13. I remember it all over Time magazine around 5th and 6th grade I think.

Willie Brown was in charge of the CA Legislature. He should go down as the guy that put the bullet behind the ear of California, in my opinion. He had help from governor moonbeam, I guess, but Brown was the guy that transcended Dukmejian (I could never spell his name), Brown, and others.

Talk about figuring out you could vote yourself any largess. Brown was that guy in CA. He went on to finish ruining Oakland.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

Likewise most of the other places like that, but the public thoroughfares, the Pioneer Square you describe isn't what I see, not to mention every transit stop.

The Pioneer Square that I'm talking about (in terms of what I have seen and experienced) is that even if someone does something like riding a bike through it, you will be told by an officer to get off your bike and walk it through. If you look like you're causing any trouble, you will be told to leave and they can photograph you and "86" you from the Square. In fact, the police can "86" people from the entire downtown area -- and they do, too... LOL... (for those of you who don't know this, yes people are "86=ed" from the downtown area by the police, it does happen).

The authorities keep a pretty tight hold on the Portland downtown area, because it's a place where a lot of people and their families come for a variety of things and activities and they want to keep the inner core of the city vibrant and alive.

And I don't see the problem at every transit stop either, or even a significant majority of them or even a minority of them. But, Tri-Met apparently thinks that elimating Fareless Square (primarily in the downtown area) for busses will help eliminate some transient traffic. I don't know if that will make a difference or not, but I guess we'll see... :-)

I don't see it as a problem in the downtown area, however, not from my viewpoint.

But, the City of Portland takes making the downtown area a friendly, clean and safe environment -- a serious concern, as you can see here...

Here's an example of what the police do in downtown Portland to make sure the "environment" is not one that hassles people there in the downtown area and to get rid of troublesome people... :-)

Four plainclothes Central Precinct officers lean against large glass windows on the second floor of a downtown Portland business, two peering through binoculars at street youths gathering below at lunch hour.

A sergeant spots a young man toss his cigarette on the ground at Southwest Sixth Avenue and Yamhill Street and radios to patrol officers: "When it's time to come in, there's a white male with khaki pants, a blue hoodie pullover with white letters, and a dark baseball cap. He'll be good for offensive littering, standing at northeast corner of intersection."

Within 30 minutes, the police spot three transient young men who either tossed cigarettes or paper to the ground. Soon, three unmarked police vehicles, officers on bicycles and mounted patrol swoop in, stunning lunch goers as they arrest each of the men and haul them to jail.

from - Portland police seek new tactics after losing sit-lie law

Also see...

Managing Portland's Downtown Sidewalks
By Sam Adams
THU, SEPTEMBER 17, 2009 3:15PM

Nope, the authorities are pretty darned serious in downtown Portland, about that kind of stuff... :-)

---

And I dunno, what is aggressive? When they shout at you as you walk by, when they walk up to you, or do they have to put a knife in your gut or something?

Aggressive panhandling basically means if someone doesn't accept being turned down (on their panhandling request). And I know this works because I've seen that it's pretty much always this way. If someone asks you for a dime or a quarter or whatever, and you say no, then they'll respect it and move on. That's not being aggressive, in other words not harrassing and haranguing you with repeated requests -- that's what "aggressive" means in Portland.

---

[Star Traveler]

I also want to call your attention to a citizen's comment on the Mayor's page up above, that I included. Here is part of her comments regarding what you were talking about...

I spend a lot of time walking through downtown as I have trimet layovers there 2-3 times a day for work & my son's school. I have not once seen aggressive panhandling in over 10 yrs. Nor have I seen sidewalks congested to the point where people could not get by. Often a simple, "excuse me" is more than enough to get through on rare occasion where the path is blocked. If someone is so socially phobic that they cannot manage an essential human interaction as that, then they need to move somewhere else (to a shack in the back woods perhaps?). This is Portland, not New York (and it never will be).

[Star Traveler]

Just for further reference, the City of Portland and the Police aren't messing around with people who will cause trouble for other citizens who want to enjoy walking around in downtown Portland.

Of all the cities that I've ever been in (in the core downtown areas), I've never seen as high a police presence, watching over things, as I have seen in downtown Portland. And it's been that way for years. They do keep things in order...

If you're a criminal or if you're looking for trouble, that's not a place to be, if you don't want an encounter with the police. But, if you're an average Joe and an ordinary citizen, and/or a family having a nice time in downtown Portland, you'll appreciate all the police presence to keep trouble out of the way... :-)

Portland police seek new tactics after losing sit-lie law

Mark Friedman (left) and Brandon Combs, Central Precinct police officers, keep an eye out near Pioneer Courthouse Square for violations that will give police on the street grounds to make arrests. The stepped-up enforcement is in response to complaints about the growing number of homeless youths who litter, panhandle and intimidate shoppers downtown.

A police officer talks to Cristobal Anzaldua, 34, after he was arrested outside Pioneer Courthouse, at Southwest Sixth Avenue and Yamhill Street, accused of flicking a cigarette on the sidewalk. He faces two counts of offensive littering and possession of less than an ounce of marijuana. Police also found he faced an outstanding warrant for contempt of court.

Police take Joshua Foley, 20, into custody at Southwest Sixth Avenue and Yamhill Street, accusing him of two counts of offensive littering and possession of a controlled substance, heroin. Police call Wednesday's move against homeless youths "strict order maintenance enforcement." That means they'll be making arrests for any criminal offense, even low-level ones such as littering, spitting in a public place or drinking in public.

[AmericanArchConservative]

My two cents’ worth on the “Flip side” of life in Portland
(AKA “Pot-land”, AKA “Porn-land”)

Panhandling is widespread, and tends to be more agressive further out from downtown - all the way out to 122nd avenue at least.

This is primarily because the patrols, arrests, and exclusions you highlight in your posts, are focused on specific areas of the downtown core - at the behest of the city council/police commissioner, (according to several friends who are Ptld Police Officers).

Police work in Portland is not guided primarily by law enforcement theory/practice as an overarching philosophy, but by politics and political correctness (also, my father was for 24 years a sheriff’s deputy in E. Multnomah County, so I have a lot of direct info).

Other parts of the downtown core area - along with most of the rest of Portland, quite frankly - the city leaders could not care less about. This is to the detriment of all of Portland, but there again, city leaders do not care.

This city’s leadership has been dominated by Liberals and radicals for almost 30 years, and that is to the detriment of the whole area. I was born there and spent most of my 40 plus years of life there, and I can tell you from the most knowledgeable POV, that Portland is NOT the city it once was.

While the panhandlers are not out in full force every day on every street and all Tri-Met stops, there are far more of them now (than there ever used to be during the “heartless” 80s for example) and when the weather is amenable, they are on every on/off ramp of I-205 from Sandy Blvd. to the Clackamas Towne Center or further, you can find them at lighted intersections on most major streets from the immediate eastside of the bridges across the Willamette River out through the Lloyd center area, up and down the length of MLK from Burnside going north, and into the Hawthorne district.

Their agressive behaviour depends upon what the individual bum or beggar thinks they can get away with at the moment, and they are also known to come out at night and lurk near popular bars and clubs, where they will hit up patrons for a drink, a cigarette, a buck or two...

Beware if you are outnumbered, or if the panhandler is bigger and you are smaller...

And don’t even get me started on the notorious homeless camp/illegal drug exchange area called “Dignity Village” but known widely among nearby residents as “Indignity Village”...

Traffic is bad all over PDX and getting worse. Ten years ago the PM rush hour traffic on 205 used to start at about 4:30-ish and be over by about 6 pm. Ditto with the Banfield secion of I-84.

Now it starts around 2:30 to 3 pm and continues until 6:30 or 7pm any day of the week, and worse by far on Fridays and holiday. Westside, 26 is a constant snarl from 7 am to about 10, then the lunch rush goes from 11:30 to 1:30, and the pm rush starts at about 2:15 and it is taillights and bumpers until 7:30 or 8 at night.

Light rail is an overrated farce that was rammed down people’s throats (Vancouver-ites voted against it - what, three times, and Milwaukie residents twice, but their leaders cut back-room deals and FIAT LUX - light rail sprawl is all over the metro area...

Every light rail line thus far constructed has exceeded by 2 or 3 or even 4 times - the amount of its stated initial construction budget, as well as vastly surpassing the expected operating budget.

They can’t even break even when thousands more are riding mass transit during the height of $4/gallon gas prices.

Portland used to be a sort of paradise, but the liberals and their pet “feel-good” projects are inexorably ruining it

I used to love the Rose Festival, and I still enjoy it in principle, but my favorite recurring event in Portland has, for the past several years, been the “Festa Italiana”. It is cozier, more accessible, more family-friendly, more entertaining, far better food and drink.

The town has become “by, of, and for”, lesbos and queers, and those who fawn upon them.

There are more dykes in Portland than any other city in the USA (even Austin, Seattle, or San Fran), and no small proportion of gay men (including the oversexed, lying, unrepentant pederast in the mayor’s office.)

The further away one is from supporting such types and their enablers, the more one is politically and socially marginalized by the inmates running the asylum.

It is a more radical lib/progressive than almost any other city in the US - right up there with Berkeley, Seattle, San Francisco, or any of the east coast havens.

I may live there again at some point in the future, and cope with the negative aspects of PDX life, but for right now I am quite happy to be somewhere more far more conservative.

A.A.C.

[ditchdigger]

Thanks so much for the info. I am really looking forward to getting there (or it may be more that I’m excited to leave California!) In my casual researching of Portland I’m finding the city to be quite polarizing. People seem to love it or hate it.

[Halgr]

Portland is San Fransisco North....and I’ve lived in both.

[Star Traveler]

You were saying ...

In my casual researching of Portland I’m finding the city to be quite polarizing. People seem to love it or hate it.

Yeah, and I see a certain number of FReepers who will disregard all else about a city, such a Portland, and simply and solely go on the basis of political idealogy.

But, that's not the way people live a life, normally. Politics is one aspect of it and there are a lot of other aspects.

That's where you see some of the polarizing aspects here, when it gets into a political type of discussion. As for me, I see a lot of aspects of a city, any city, which exists regardless of one's political persuasions... :-)

The bottom line is that you'll have fun in Portland, it has a lot of sights to see and nearby sights, too (mountains and coast and in-between). Be sure to see Multnomah Falls, Mt. Hood Timberline Lodge and the coast, too (although it's going to be chilly at the coast...).

And if you're there around June of the year (either staying that long or back again by then), be sure to see the various events of the Rose Festival, too... :-)