Posted on 11/16/2009 2:58:21 AM PST by SonOfDarkSkies
Statistics have been collected on the recidivism of people convicted of drunk driving. Those who were made to receive psychological counseling do slightly better than those who did hot. The group that does the worst by far was those who were made to enter AA.
A good read:
Some have severe reactions like you where there is no question that booze is bad. Others are warned in more subtle tones. When they ignore the warning and continue gagging it down, they call it “acquiring a taste” for the stuff. ;^)
I disagree. I say that because those recidivist will ultimately walk through the doors of AA if not sooner, later. A real alcoholic can only diagnose him/herself. It wasn’t until I was sober through AA could I begin to apply methods such as Cognitive Behavior Theory. The people in the rooms of AA will tell you, they have tried everything. Only the Twelve Steps helped them restore God in there lives and restore order to the havoc they have wreaked on themselves and others.
That said, off to my 12:30 meeting. I’m just doing the “next right thing”.
After 23 years of sobriety, I don’t think that I’ll test this “theory”. I have personally never seen any alcoholic “contol” their drinking.
Next study results soon to be released: “Meth users MAY be able to control their usage”.
I’ve heard people talk affirmatively about AA, but the fact remains that it is entirely anecdotal. Their claims to success cannot be objectively measured, and there are many, many people whose lives contradict AA claims.
If you feel it works for you then more power to you, but the way society and the medical community have given imprimatur to old Bill’s unsubstantiated claims is a lot like the way AGW is believed.
How long of a window period between sooner & later? You sell others short. I can understand why you guys at AA would ignore one's ability to quit drinking forever without the use of a "program". But you are here now and the truth be told, it happens all the time.
Help her get sober
A fairly obvious explanation for this is that most of those forced to enter AA have not yet accepted their need to follow the program. You have to want to make it work.
But the others accepted their need to go to psychological counseling?
I’m not a huge pusher of AA. In fact, I have considerable difficulty with the disease theory of addiction. I accept that it may apply to some people, but I doubt it is applicable to every person with an addiction problem. It does seem, however, that the disease theory is helpful in dealing with the shame and guilt associated with addictive behaviors.
That said, there have probably been a good many millions of people who have successfully implemented 12-step programs in their lives. While this evidence may be largely anecdotal, millions of anecdotes constitute pretty good evidence. It seems to work for a great many people.
We don’t have millions of anecdotes of success for any other treatment option of which I’m aware.
People’s problems are just like people. Everybody is a little bit different. Some folks can set and keep limits, some folks have to set their bar at zero. AA’s success rate isn’t any better than any other program, it’s kind of like a marriage, you need to put the right person together with the right program.
It becomes worth the risk because some people can’t do abstinence. For some the constant temptation of the complete cutoff couples with the sense of failure when they give in puts them on a roller coaster ride of doom. By putting them on a path of controlled drinking they no longer have to feel like they’re going back to square 1 because they had a beer at a party, if they had a drink and only a drink then that’s a win.
I forgot the sarcasm tag! sorry
Have there? There is no empirical evidence to support that belief. And that is my point.
How many people join AA and fail? How many people stop drinking on their own? How many people cut down on their drinking?
For all we know, quitting on your own or cutting back on your drinking might have a much higher success rate than AA.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone who might find help with AA. But any assertion that 12 step programs are more successful than any other method or no method at all is not based upon facts because 12 step programs don't keep scientific records.
Nobody knows what their success rate is.
I don't believe it at all. I believe that addictions are signs of character defects.
Doubtful, since just about every one of the millions helped by AA claim they tried quitting on their own or cutting back many times before going with AA.
Here's a different way of wording it with which you might be able to agree.
Millions of people believe AA helped them when they were unable to quit on their own. That's an empirical and factual statement.
Citation? Did the "cure" stick? Would a higher percentage of them have succeeded with other methods?
They can believe anything they want. More power to them. But the statistics on AA don't exist. They just don't. If they did, then AA would be citing them.
AA is a cherished institution and the cultural norm is to believe their hype. But unless they can back it with numbers then that's all it is-hype.
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