Pirated Indie Movie: 400,000 Downloads But Earned Only $400

reddit.com ^ | 11-10-2009 | Kiowa Winans

[Keltik]

I am Kiowa Winans, Executive Producer of the movie, "Ink," which was bit torrented by pirates and consequently became one of the top 20 most popular movies online.

We are shocked by this whole thing. We made our movie in Denver, CO with a very small budget and have done all of the distribution ourselves, fighting to bring it to 15 cities for theatrical screenings. We figured it would be pirated eventually, but didn't expect it to happen so soon or for it to take off the way it has.

We are indie filmmakers, have zero studio funding and are in debt as a result of making the film. Having the film downloaded over 400,000 times is astronomical exposure for our movie, however I do wish there was some way to collect money from that. We view this as a huge and free marketing campaign for our film, but in order to move on to new films (we plan on staying totally independent) we need to prove that there is a financial model that works. If 400,000 people download and only 100 to 500 come to our site and donate a few dollars, that is not a financial model that will work. It's a whole new era and I think everyone is trying to figure out what it all means.

[Soothesayer9]

Well step right up and be chipped people so this won’t happen again. Obama says so. So long as you’re tracked and every purchases authenticated, no problemo for Obama.

You know its coming from that clown sooner or later, unfortunately.

[ClearCase_guy]

I'm sympathetic to the folks who got ripped off. But I'd also like to point out that there is a really cool thing out there -- it's called Capitalism. It involves people producing goods and selling them to people who want them. This involves money changing hands as a way of rewarding producers. It's all strictly voluntary.

I'm wondering how many indie film producers really LIKE capitalism. I'm wondering how many fans of indie films really LIKE capitalism. And I'm wondering how many of these people REALLY like the alternative concept -- which is that everything ought to be free, and people will just magically make stuff for me, and I never have to actually pay for anything.

The Left like to use the word "sustainable". You want sustainable economies?? Go with Capitalism.

[fr_freak]

Having the film downloaded over 400,000 times is astronomical exposure for our movie, however I do wish there was some way to collect money from that.

This guy makes the possibly erroneous assumption that 400,000 downloads translates to 400,000 people who would have paid to see his movie. However, it is just as likely that his movie was something that people were willing to spend 30 minutes downloading but wouldn't be willing to spend $4 - $9 to see in a theater.

[IronJack]

It never ceases to amaze me that people work hard to produce something useful and then just give it away. The “Open Source” thing is just such an example. I use Eclipse. And I’ve downloaded a lot of Java development stuff free. I wouldn’t dream of paying for it. If you’re going to give it away, I’m going to take it.

Ayn Rand considered altruism the greatest abomination inflicted on manking. I kind of understand her reasoning.

[The Clemson Tiger]

I find it so ironic that the entertainment industry that has promulgated the ‘defy authority/obey your own rules’ message for decades is surprised when their followers do just that.

I have no sympathy for them. They’ve made their own bed.

I ended a once a week trip to the movie theater habit in 2003, when they decided to support the enemy in time of war. Haven’t been since. Don’t miss it.

[CharlesWayneCT]

It's a whole new era and I think everyone is trying to figure out what it all means.

It means we've raised a generation which thinks stealing is fine, thinks other people should have to work for free for their pleasure, who thinks everybody else owes them something.

We elected one of them, and Obama is working hard to make sure everybody thinks that someone else should pay for their health care.

[usconservative]

Ayn Rand considered altruism the greatest abomination inflicted on manking.

Correction: She considered forced altruism as the greatest abomination inflicted on mankind.

[bilhosty]

Certain supporters of an outfit called free media believes that copyright should be referred to as copyleft. They don’t believe in it because that is personal property. These people now have poistions in the Obama administration. If these people donated money to Obama or even voted for him as far as I am concened it serves them right(er left).

[bluecollarman]

If I had a product any product that people would download 400,000 time I could make a lot more than 400.00 and never have to charge a penny.

[grey_whiskers]

What *he* said.

Capitalism is sustainable; socialism is not.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

Open source is based on intellectual pride, curiosity, and bragging rights on the part of the producer -- possibly on the idea of future earnings ("If I show I wrote killer app 'X' I will get hired at a large salary").

It only works when the necessities of life are otherwise provided for -- usually by capitalism, sometimes by mooching.

Cheers!

[Greysard]

If I had a product any product that people would download 400,000 time I could make a lot more than 400.00 and never have to charge a penny.

I never heard about that movie before. Google provided the link to buy. And how much do you think the DVD costs? Minimum $19. Meanwhile back in the real world we read this:

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. kicked off another price war on Thursday, cutting online preorder prices of some upcoming DVDs to $10, while rivals Target and Amazon scrambled to follow suit. (link.)

If the Ink makers would choose to sell it for $1+postage then they would be sitting on a good pile of cash. People can easily spend a dollar on a strange movie and toss the DVD if they don't like it. But they think a bit more if it costs $20 - there is some serious competition in this price range. By selling for $1.42 in total they would make piracy of their movie unnecessary (at least within the US/Canada.) If someone still wants to download - say, because they live in 3rd world and have no access to Western banking system - then those downloads are not a loss, they wouldn't buy anything anyway.

[IronJack]

Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. Since selfishness (as she understands it) is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.

From the Objectivist website ...

[nwrann]

I agree, at $19.00 per DVD the distributors have priced the out of the range that most people are willing to pay for an “unknown” movie. However, it is impossible to sell a DVD for $1 simply because the cost of producing the physical DVD is higher than that. At the very minimum a professional DVD is going to cost $2-$3 to make which puts the price range around $5.00 to sell it without a loss.

(With that being said selling the DVD through any outlet other than your own, means that the reseller/retailer is going to bump the price to $10 (which is why my movie is $9.99 on Amazon. I literally could not price it lower).