Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New evidence supports 19th century idea on formation of oil and gas
American Chemical Society ^ | Nov 4, 2009 | Unknown

Posted on 11/04/2009 11:55:29 AM PST by decimon

Scientists in Washington, D.C. are reporting laboratory evidence supporting the possibility that some of Earth's oil and natural gas may have formed in a way much different than the traditional process described in science textbooks.

Their study is scheduled for Nov./Dec. issue of ACS' Energy & Fuels, a bi-monthly publication. Anurag Sharma and colleagues note that the traditional process involves biology: Prehistoric plants died and changed into oil and gas while sandwiched between layers of rock in the hot, high-pressure environment deep below Earth's surface. Some scientists, however, believe that oil and gas originated in other ways, including chemical reactions between carbon dioxide and hydrogen below Earth' surface.

The new study describes a test of that idea, which dates to at least 1877 and famous Russian chemist Dimitri Mendeelev. They combined ingredients for this so-called abiotic synthesis of methane, the main ingredient in natural gas, in a diamond-anvil cell and monitored in-situ the progress of the reaction. The diamond anvils can generate high pressures and temperatures similar to those that occur deep below Earth's surface and allow for in-situ optical spectroscopy at the extreme environments. The results "strongly suggest" that some methane could form strictly from chemical reactions in a variety of chemical environments. This study further highlights the role of reaction pathways and fluid immiscibility in the extent of hydrocarbon formation at extreme conditions simulating deep subsurface.

###

ARTICLE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE "In Situ Diamond-Anvil Cell Observations of Methanogenesis at High Pressures and Temperatures"

DOWNLOAD FULL TEXT ARTICLE http://pubs.acs.org/stoken/presspac/presspac/full/10.1021/ef9006017

CONTACT: Anurag Sharma, Ph.D. Geophysical Laboratory Carnegie Institution of Washington Washington, D.C. 20015 Phone: 202-478-7975 Fax: 202-478-8901 Email: asharma@ciw.edu


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Science
KEYWORDS: abiogenic; bogusscience; catastrophism; energy; hydrocarbons; opec; peakoiltrollsonfr; redherring; thomasgold
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last
To: GreyFriar

Look at whats on Titan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakes_of_Titan


21 posted on 11/04/2009 12:43:20 PM PST by Mmogamer (<This space for lease>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

Google “oxygen cloud space”. There are lots of supernova remnants “out there” with substantial oxygen components.


22 posted on 11/04/2009 12:43:25 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: decimon
Interesting that the Abstract for the actual article (already available on-line) only mentions methane generation.

Only in the EurekaAlert is this hyped to imply that also means oil.

23 posted on 11/04/2009 12:43:41 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

What oxygen in methane? We know CO2 exists below ground (Evian).


24 posted on 11/04/2009 12:44:11 PM PST by Hoosier-Daddy ("It does no good to be a super power if you have to worry what the neighbors think." BuffaloJack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Forgot the link

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/ef9006017


25 posted on 11/04/2009 12:44:27 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: thackney

And btw is titan has seas and massive reserves of hydrocarbons, if there is oil/gas/ etc there.. well no plant life made it for sure.


26 posted on 11/04/2009 12:49:20 PM PST by Mmogamer (<This space for lease>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Hoosier-Daddy

He was asking about refueling space ships. All of the options that I can think of include oxygen in order to burn the fuel.


27 posted on 11/04/2009 12:53:44 PM PST by Ingtar (Asses far Left of me; Rinos to the Left; FReepin' on the Right with you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Mmogamer

Methane is not the same as the long-string complex hydrocarbons found in oil.


28 posted on 11/04/2009 12:59:19 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: mountn man

There is a spectrum of fuels from peat to various types of brown coal, to bituminous coals to anthracite.

It appears pretty clearly that the harder and more energy-containing types are formed from peat by the action of heat and pressure underground.

As far as animals and plants being unable to form thick deposits, there are numerous layers of limestone around the world hundreds of feet thick. It is pretty clear that limestone is primarily formed from the shells of marine organisms.


29 posted on 11/04/2009 1:05:31 PM PST by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: American Constitutionalist

I believe oil is a gift from God and that is why the left attempts to demonize it. They worship the creation instead of the Creator.


30 posted on 11/04/2009 1:06:49 PM PST by beefree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: mountn man

Oil doesn’t exist as a lake below ground, so your example about crushing down the rainforest is flawed. Oil occurs in the pore spaces of rocks like sandstone and there may only be 20 to 30% porosity for the oil to occupy, like water in a sponge. You can get a thousand feet of oil because the oil is trapped by a structural or lithologic trap, pooling oil in a limited space that drained from a much larger area. A thousand feet of oil saturated rock is not unusual.


31 posted on 11/04/2009 1:14:53 PM PST by PBinTX
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: decimon

The Russians have not tought oil was “fossel” fuel, but a mineral. We have had oil fields in Oklahoma and the Gulf of Mexico REFILL with oil in recent years. Almost ALL oil fields seem to last much longer than the original surveys indicate.

Why?

Oil is seeping up from the earth’s core. It has been there since the earth formed.

Hydrogen is the most common element in the universe. Carbon is a direct product of fusion in stars. The first generation star explodes and sends it’s contents out to form other stars and planets. A plant’s molten core supplies the heat and pressure to form hydrocarbon chains. Then pressure forces the gasious oil up through the crust until it cools and condenses into oil pockets. The lighter hydrocarbon chains become natural gas pockets.

So is it really renewable? I think the answer is sort of... Oil will last much longer than first thought, but will deminish over time. Earth will only produce at it’s own rate and we could use it up faster than it is renewed.

Then there is an entire moon of Jupiter covered by oceans of methane we could process into fuel...


32 posted on 11/04/2009 1:18:58 PM PST by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & www.Gunsnet.net Moderator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: GreyFriar
H’mmm is this saying that the dinosaur’s didn’t die for our internal combustion engines?

Yep -- the earth is a pressure-cooker that continues to make oil out of hydrogen and carbon.

33 posted on 11/04/2009 1:19:55 PM PST by zot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

There is lots of water out there that can be processed into oxygen.


34 posted on 11/04/2009 1:20:07 PM PST by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & www.Gunsnet.net Moderator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: RoadGumby

Not millions, but billions of years. The carbon was made by first generation stars through fusion. They went supernova and supplied the material the second generation stars and planets were made from.

They hydrogen and carbon have been in the earth’s core since it formed about 3 billion years ago...


35 posted on 11/04/2009 1:23:01 PM PST by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & www.Gunsnet.net Moderator)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: decimon

Does this mean we can inject carbon or CO2 into oil fields to make MORE oil?


36 posted on 11/04/2009 1:31:06 PM PST by Little Ray (The beatings will continue until GOP comes to heel.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Little Ray
Does this mean we can inject carbon or CO2 into oil fields to make MORE oil?

You can inject what chemical compounds it would take but you wouldn't have the required heat, pressure and time.

37 posted on 11/04/2009 1:37:36 PM PST by decimon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: mountn man
I have always thought oil was produced by PRESSURE and it either squeezed out the oil in the rocks or else melted the rocks into oil.

How anyone believes it's plants and animals......MOSTLY IN A FEW PLACES on earth....is beyond me. I have had geologists wanting to COMMIT me for this!!

38 posted on 11/04/2009 1:43:59 PM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion,,,,,,the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
Ok, about limestone, I can see shells building up, under water over time. But plant and animal life, building up over time? What prevented the previous material from decompossing? Limestone would have had to have been on a sea floor at one time. Meanwhile plant and animal life on the surface, and then in a large pocket, taken miles below the surface, undisturbed, where the processes would have crushed the volume to a fraction of the size.

Which means if a oil deposit were the size of, lets say Manhattan, and was 1000 ft deep, it would have had to have been 10,000 feet deep, or more, with plant and animal carcasses, preserved, encapsulated, and then crushed to its current size, and then pressurized and heated, to produce crude.

Now a tree that dies, the root system underground decays in about 50 years, or less. Somehow that decay has to be stopped, in order for 100's or 1000's of feet of plant and animal material to be deposited. Then it all has to be encapsulated together. Then taken 1000's and 1000's of feet below ground. Where over millenia, heat and pressure do their thing.

Mess up one of the processes and it would wipe out the entire production. Unless of course there was even more material that was part of this process, that never was changed over, and what we have is just a small fraction of what "could have been". Meaning that either the initial material was the size of Manhattan and 100,000 ft deep. Or it was the size of New York state 10,000 ft deep. Or it was the entire eastern half of the US, from the Mississippi to Atlantic, 100 feet deep.

Now add up ALL the oil pockets in the world, and figure how much material it would take to produce that. Plus coal and peat.

I don't know, seems kinda a push to think that ALL the crude came from plants and animals.

I mean if we were able to take all the vegetation and animal life on earth, push it into the Grand Canyon, bury it, pressurize it, and heat it, how full would the Grand Canyon be with oil? Now do that REPEATEDLY for EVERY single deposit.

How do you get vegetation to all gather in one spot and not decay. When plants die they decompose and provide nutrients for new plants. Now you have to get MASS animal congrigation, in one spot, then suddenly die, and not decompose, and become encapsulated, along with all the vegetable material.

So that happens in Texas, then Pennsylvania, then Michigan, then Alaska, then Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Indonesia, and all the ocean reserves.

39 posted on 11/04/2009 1:46:14 PM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: decimon

You need to remember that heat and pressure BREAK DOWN the complex hydrocarbons found in oil into shorter, simpler molecules. We do this in refineries every day.

If you have a basic understanding of enthalpy and entropy, this will help explain:
http://www.chemcases.com/fuels/fuels-b.htm


40 posted on 11/04/2009 1:52:10 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-52 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson