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"Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic -- but will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of freedom, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path to destruction." Thomas Jefferson
1 posted on 10/12/2009 8:30:59 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Dick Bachert

2 posted on 10/12/2009 8:36:59 AM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: Dick Bachert
I agree with him that, sadly, by violating treaties, marching them off to barren reservations, etc. we have done that...

Who is "we"? He needs to know the difference between things that happened over a hundred years ago and now. Also, if he feels so guilty he should turn over all of his belongings to the nearest Indian.

3 posted on 10/12/2009 8:39:57 AM PDT by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: Dick Bachert
Sensitive and bright guy that he is, he came back – half joking -- with “Don’t you mean Oppression of Indigenous Peoples Day?”

Has he seen Mel Gibson's movie Apocalypto? It might just open his eyes to those 'indigenous peoples'.

4 posted on 10/12/2009 8:42:38 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Dick Bachert
FWIW, the Jefferson quote is spurious. The Webster quote may be legitimate, but I've read a good many of his speeches and it doesn't sound like him. The closest I've come to an actual source is from an essay purportedly by Noah Webster, not Dan.

In particular, I think Daniel would have referred to the failure of the Constitution leading to the end of freedom throughout the world, not to anarchy. In a world still dominated by more or less absolute monarchies, anarchy wasn't the problem to be concerned about.

6 posted on 10/12/2009 8:55:59 AM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Dick Bachert
It's kind of funny. The great rush to claim victim hood or guilt for victim hood.

www.thequietconservative.com new article “Happy Columbus Day” had a different perspective.

No one, anywhere, mentions WHY Columbus wanted to sail West to find a sea route to Asia. It is because Constantinople fell to the Turks and Europe was cut off from all trade routes by Muslims. The known paths now meant slavery or death. 1492 was the year of the final expulsion of the Berbers from Spain.

Liberal revisionist European/American hating history is all that is taught now.

7 posted on 10/12/2009 9:00:39 AM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: Dick Bachert
mostly warrior inhabitants

I wonder about your characterization here. If you read about the Lewis and Clark expedition, you can get sort of a random picture of what these inhabitants were like. My recollection is that they only had trouble once; which isn't too bad considering they were a large group of funny looking strangers.

As for Oppression of Indigenous Peoples Day, I would think it would be more appropriately celebrated on February 12th.

ML/NJ

8 posted on 10/12/2009 9:03:07 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Dick Bachert

Wow!


9 posted on 10/12/2009 9:03:47 AM PDT by definitelynotaliberal (So how about, in honor of the American soldier, ya quit making things up? - Gov. Palin)
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To: Dick Bachert
While the Indians got hosed by our govt back then, they were sure to be clobbered by ANYONE who came to America. The Indians were a stone-age people and anybody who crossed an ocean was going to be more technologically advanced. They could have been any color of the rainbow and the results would have been the same - or worse. At least the Indians made (and still make) the whites feel guilty.*

One of the earlier historians wrote that trade for iron conquered the Indian. Better arrow and spear heads, better knives, and something I hadn't considered - iron pots. The squaws no longer had to heat stones and drop them into a gourd full of water. (I can just see some hapless brave coming home and facing "Running Deer, how come I have to put up with heating rocks while all the others have iron pots. Until you get me one, I have a headache.")

For all those claiming victimhood, look at how your brethren are still treated even today in South and Central America. Especially, ask the folks in the Mexican state of Chiapas.

*PBS has a short series called "Frontier House". One episode had the white guys eating venison shot by the Indians, who could hunt out of season. One of the Indians was a prof at a local college and was an expert on applying guilt trips. He said something like, "I find it ironic that we hunt on land that is no longer ours while you can settle on it." I would have asked him how many Indian tribes would still let their enemies hunt on land that they stole from them? What I found ironic was that the white man, who won, couldn't hunt on that same land but the Indians, who lost, could.

There's a neat movie clip on YouTube where General Miles speaks my thoughts.

13 posted on 10/12/2009 9:41:52 AM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: Dick Bachert
A problem not unique to our time or place:

"Then when the Lord your God brings you to the land he promised your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to give you – a land with large, fine cities you did not build, houses filled with choice things you did not accumulate, hewn out cisterns you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant – and you eat your fill, be careful not to forget the Lord who brought you out of Egypt, that place of slavery." - GOD

I think we may need a reminder.

23 posted on 10/12/2009 12:15:13 PM PDT by naturalized
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