Posted on 09/15/2009 9:35:52 AM PDT by PilotDave
When the witness asked the pilot if he was all right, the pilot answered that he was, but he seemed to be unaware that his airplane had impacted poles during the landing.
The pilot subsequently asked the witness if the wildfires had reached his ranch. The witness stated that he didn't know where the pilot's ranch was. The pilot then asked the witness if he could put some beer that his brother left in the airplane, in the witness' truck. Another witness asked what happened, and the pilot said, "I don't know, I land here almost every other day." They all reported that the pilot seemed impaired, and unaware as to his whereabouts. Two of the witnesses indicated that they smelled alcohol in the airplane, but not on the pilot.
According to the witnesses, the pilot appeared to be looking for something in the airplane. The pilot stated that he was looking for a bottle of wine, which the witness found beneath one of the aft seats. Both the pilot and the witness then exited the airplane with the bottle of wine, which was 1/3 full. Another witness put the wine bottle in his toolbox. The pilot then asked the witnesses to make up a story about what they had seen. They agreed to tell people that they were away at lunch when the accident occurred, The pilot asked the remaining witness if he was in New Mexico, and was told that he wasn't. About 1500, the pilot was contacted by police via cell phone. According to the police statement, the pilot told authorities that he "experienced a pressurization problem."
(Excerpt) Read more at ntsb.gov ...
Three packs a day, wow. Even if he hadn’t been hitting the bottle, it sounds like he was trying to kill himself with CO poisoning in the cabin.
}:-)4
I think you should read the NTSB report more carefully.
Although witnesses reported the pilot removing alcohol from the baggage compartment (which isn't accessible during flight) and a bottle of wine from the cabin, none reported any smell of alcohol on the pilot. However, witnesses did report a smell of alcohol in the cabin.
Subsequent examination of the plane found that the pressurization system had a problem that would have probably prevented it from maintaining the appropriate cabin altitude. Combined with the pilot's heavy smoking habit (3 packs/day), the most likely cause of the pilot's disorientation was hypoxia.
He was at 13,000 ft when he had his “problem”. Hardly hypoxia country. Millions of people live that high. He left the scene after cleaning up the aircraft and wasn’t tested for substances. He asked the witnesses to lie. He didn’t know what state he was in for crying out loud? The symptoms of hypoxia go away almost immediatley when ox is reintroduced. I’ve been through altitude chambers. Trust me.
It is when you smoke 3 packs/day. A doc that used to do my FAA physical said that he would ground all smokers, if it was up to him.
He left the scene after cleaning up the aircraft and wasn’t tested for substances. He asked the witnesses to lie. He didn’t know what state he was in for crying out loud?
I agree that this looks bad. But, it isn't conclusive.
The symptoms of hypoxia go away almost immediatley when ox is reintroduced. I’ve been through altitude chambers. Trust me.
If it's just hypoxia, yes. But, toss in carbon monoxide poisoning, and you still have hypoxia symptoms because the blood can't absorb oxygen quickly.
You should get a job as an NTSB investigator. :o) Trust me, I am not busting on Patrick. If I were that rich, good looking and talented I might get drunk and fly also (alone). I’m usually flying somebody who’s counting on me to behave. I just think it’s a funny story. BTW- I’m sure yor flight doc is also familiar with the old saying in medicine, “when you see hoof prints think horses, not zebras”.
“As a resident of Colorado, I can tell you that a LOT of low landers (anything below 2,000 ft) come out here and get disoriented at 9,000 to 10,000 ft”
Yep, except Patrick was on his way to his ranch in New Mexico. Where he spent much of his time. Hardly an unaware unconditioned low lander.
As a "low lander" that has never smoked, I've noticed minor hypoxia effects after an extended time at 11,000 feet. I immediately asked for a lower altitude and have never been above 10,000 feet (aircraft cabin altitude) since then.
I've made trips to 14,000 feet (on Pike's Peak), but never stayed long enough to feel any effects.
“The symptoms of hypoxia go away almost immediatley when ox is reintroduced. I’ve been through altitude chambers. Trust me.
If it’s just hypoxia, yes. But, toss in carbon monoxide poisoning, and you still have hypoxia symptoms because the blood can’t absorb oxygen quickly.”
Then why would he leave the scene? Like Ted Kennedy? Why wouldn’t he just stay and provide the truth? Like Obama? Because maybe he was hiding something? Maybe????
Maybe. Witnesses say he was disoriented, so it's not entirely unexpected for him to do unreasonable things. We just don't know why he was disoriented.
My point is that the original poster (and you) are throwing around accusations with no proof. The NTSB wisely did not accuse the pilot of intoxication, and found evidence of alternative explanations for the pilot's disorientation.
You're entitled to your opinion. But, don't cite the NTSB's report as "proof", because it doesn't support it.
“I’ve noticed minor hypoxia effects after an extended time at 11,000 feet. I immediately asked for a lower altitude and have never been above 10,000 feet (aircraft cabin altitude) since then.”
Umm- the difference in atmospheric ox levels between 10,000 and 11,000 is barely measurable, let alone detectable by the human body. Further, if you were fine at 14,000 ft on pikes peak, I’d surmise the symptoms you experienced in the plane were not hypoxia at all. More likely you are either afraid of flying or heights! What exactly were your symptoma anyway?
“The NTSB wisely did not accuse the pilot of intoxication, and found evidence of alternative explanations for the pilot’s disorientation.”
The same NTSB that didn’t list pilot error in JFK jr’s accident, or conducted the TWA800 investigation. That NTSB?
I had been flying for hours. I was at the top of Pike's peak for about 30 minutes.
More likely you are either afraid of flying or heights
Sure, I'm afraid of flying -- with an instrument rating and 700+ hours PIC. I guess I didn't really sell my plane because I didn't have have the time to keep my IFR currency up.
Or, that I haven't been averaging about 50,000 miles a year for the past 10 years in a plane with someone else up front. Actually, my girlfriend would probably prefer that wasn't true, either.
What exactly were your symptoma anyway?
My symptoms: I noticed changes in my peripheral vision. I'm sure that that you know that's one of the symptoms of hypoxia.
“with an instrument rating and 700+ hours PIC”
Sorry, I didn’t realize I was speaking to such a highly experienced pilot. Were you related to Mr. Swayze?
Dave, 10,000+ hours CFI CFII MEI CFI-seaplane, tailwheel, aerobatic, test pilot,flown F-4, F-16, T-38, T-37, T-33, MU2, BE18, BE-56 BE55, BE58p, CE421, CE340 +50 other types. Owned 10 planes (4 currently), built 2. Flown through hail, been struck by lightning, been hypoxic and carbondioxide poisoned as well as exposed to hydrozine. I’ve got socks that have more that 700 hours.
I didn't claim I was a highly experienced pilot. I simply pointed out that it was unlikely I was afraid of flying.
Dave, 10,000+ hours CFI CFII MEI CFI-seaplane, tailwheel, aerobatic, test pilot,flown F-4, F-16, T-38, T-37, T-33, MU2, BE18, BE-56 BE55, BE58p, CE421, CE340 +50 other types. Owned 10 planes (4 currently), built 2. Flown through hail, been struck by lightning, been hypoxic and carbondioxide poisoned as well as exposed to hydrozine.
I've flown the Space Shuttle in 5 different missions. I was posting on FR from the ISS last week.
I’ve got socks that have more that 700 hours.
That explains why you act like such a smug asshole.
I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier: you are entitled to your opinion. But, the NTSB report doesn't support it. You don't like it, that's fine. But, it's not my fault that they don't agree with you.
“the NTSB report doesn’t support it. You don’t like it, that’s fine. But, it’s not my fault that they don’t agree with you.”
The NTSB didn’t say he wasn’t drunk. They said they were unable to test him because he left the scene, twice. They said he was seen removing and hiding partially consumed alchohol containers from the plane. They said the plane reeked of alchohol and that he was the only occupant. They said he was disoriented to the point of not knowing he landed on a street or even what state he was in. They said he asked witnesses to lie to the authorities. They said he was only at 13,000, where he wouldn’t even need suplemental ox, let alone cabin pressure to operate normally. Do you think they might have liked to pull a blood sample?
“That explains why you act like such a smug asshole.”
As long as you’re sinking to name calling, don’t forget racist. Or poopy faced mean butt!
BTW-
You never answered my question. Are you related to Mr. Swayze?
The original poster and you claim that the pilot referenced in the cited NTSB report is Patrick Swayze. I don't know if it's true, and it's really of no concern to me. So, I didn't think it was relevant.
But, since it's so apparently so important to you, he is my father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
“They [NTSB] said the plane reeked of alchohol”
~~~~~~~~~~
Wrong. The NTSB did not state that.
The closest thing the NTSB came to anything describing odor was with regards to tobacco:
“The airplane cabin had a strong odor of tobacco products. “
The probable cause is not at the link in the original story. And it is interesting to speculate on the cause of the accident, but the NTSB already has done so, and I will stick with it.
The NTSB’s probable cause to this accident is not alcohol:
See
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21252&key=1
“The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot’s physical impairment due to the cumulative effects of carbon monoxide from engine exhaust by-products, carbon monoxide from heavy tobacco use, and the loss of an undetermined amount of cabin pressurization. A factor in the loss of pressurization was a fractured clamp.”
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