Posted on 09/06/2009 5:46:50 PM PDT by myknowledge
The sadistic attack on two boys aged nine and 11 by a pair of brothers of similar age has shocked and appalled in equal measure.
But what background did the attackers themselves have and what turned them to such extreme violence?
As the horrors of the bloody attack on two young boys in Edlington, near Doncaster, are digested, a picture is emerging of the feral, troubled upbringing of their abusers.
Whichever side of the story you focus on, it makes uncomfortable reading.
The young attackers grew up in a large family with a mother who left them to their own devices because she could not control them.
'Playing gone wrong'
A relative claims she fed them food laced with cannabis to get them to sleep and allowed them to watch horror movies on their own as young as six or seven.
Their father, the relative told the BBC, was "tough... maybe a little too tough" and one neighbour claimed he encouraged them to fight at a young age.
When their father moved out of their three-bedroom home last Christmas, the boys' behaviour reportedly worsened. Both were on the child protection register and eventually placed in foster care.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
Nobody paid attention, no one tried to keep anyone in line. They were too focused on their own sh*t.
I guess am naturally modest, fearful of drugs and dangerous stuff, didn't do the dating and sex thing. I saw what it did to others and wanted no part of it.
Whatever kept me from the bad stuff was inherently inside me.
What made your dad so awful, in your eyes ?
Hmmmm. Being a sociopath? Beating me for no reason? Beating my mother. Being a racist. Alcoholic. I have a long list of reasons. The last words my dad ever said to me were 'F--- you!' That was hmmmm.... Almost 20 years ago. Haven't heard from him since.
Is that ok for you or do you want more? I got more but at the end of the day, maybe you ought to just take my word for it.
Sociopathy runs in my family. My dad was scary. Absolutely cold. I don't think he actually cared about anyone and considered most people a nuisance and hindrance.
My dad is a craftsman. Truly skilled at what he does. But, and this is his own admission, he doesn't care about anyone. He's a sociopath. I don't think he's ever cried. His mother never saw him cry. He didn't even cry as a baby. I've seen him laugh but the things he laughs at would make the average person shudder I think. His idea of a good evening would be to sit in a dark living room in a chair for hours on end- and not say a word or move a muscle. Who knows what was going through his mind? 'Do I kill them or just walk out?' He walked out in the end. Good move.
There are some messed up people out there in the world. I know a lot of people have a hard time accepting that but it's true.
I don't care about anybody either. As far as that goes, I'm probably a sociopath too. I don't consider that a bad or a good thing. All I know is if I could make all of you go away, I would. I've known some interesting people in my time, but at the end of the day, I find everybody pretty annoying and would delete the 'interesting' ones as well as the not so interesting ones. I find it interesting that people say they want to be told the truth but when you tell them you're just pretending to like them it upsets them. If you treat them the way you truthfully feel about them, it upsets them even more. I can't win. Better to just fake the funk. It keeps everybody happy. Besides, you've got me outnumbered.
But I do try to stay on the right side of the law- for the most part.
“Whatever kept me from the bad stuff was inherently inside me. “
It sounds like it was fear.
Same thing for your siblings?
My brothers....one I don't think did anything...the other I think did some of the sexual stuff. I really don't know. I was off in my own college world when he was in high school so I really don't know.
I can tell you this...if my parents would have said anything on what to do I would have blown them off. It just happened that I was naturally not an experimenter in the sexual or drug thing. I figured out early on that getting laid was not an achievement and that teenaged girls were by and large used....and I wanted no part of that.
So long story short, met the love of my life at 19 and we married a few years later......here it is coming up on our 23rd anniversary.
I was raised to be an atheist, too. I got into all kinds of insane trouble, I pretty much have to believe in Jesus - I should have been dead a hundred times.
I do think that people can be made to be “moral” without Christianity. I think it’s mainly done by tyranny in that case. Using cause and effect and coming down hard on anyone that doesn’t toe the line - no mercy.
Murder (except for the State?) Death penalty, quick march. Steal (except for the State?) Lose your hand, no real trial. Etc. You can get some fairly crime-free areas that way, unfortunately, innocent people suffer greatly at the same time.
The problem becomes then, what is moral?
You’re dad is not a God fearing conservative. Genuine conservatives are warm hearted and generous to a flaw. ALcohol is fine but drinking to avoid life isn’t what a conservative does.
What I find troubling is that you don’t think much of your dad and then describe yourself in the same way.
Your FR webpage further explained your dilema:
http://www.freerepublic.com/~prodigalson/
Soy Estadosunidense. (why does Spanish have a way to say ‘I am from the United States’ but English does not? We can only say ‘I am American’.)
Physically located in Edinburgh, Scotland. Where I have lived for a number of years.
Some important things to note about me:
I do not watch television. I threw mine out 18 years ago and never got another one. It is one of the most important things I ever did. I never get worked up about this MSM thing I keep hearing people talk about. I have only heard President Obama’s speaking voice once in my life. I only ever heard Bush’s a few times (and all of this was on the internet). I don’t care about Katie Couric. She is not part of my life. Nor American Idol. Nor commercials. etc etc.
I was an Eleven Charlie for eight years. I finished my time in the Army as a Blue Spader. You’ll get it if you are/were an infantry guy.
I am not looking for friends. I usually show up on the forum because I want to fight although I am willing to be civil when the mood strikes or suits me.
I care about chocolate. Really good chocolate. I am a chocolate snob. Hershey’s and Cadbury’s will not do.
I care about good coffee- preferably Lavazza.
I care about Tiramisu.
I do not drink alcohol. At all.
I recently quit smoking and I blame every single one of you for the cranky way I feel right now.
I am single. Male. Early 40s. In very good physical condition.
I have been married 2x and also 2 common law wives.
I have lived in 9 countries and have lived in Europe almost half my life. Not that this is a dating site (-: but I find it helps to explain these things in advance or I am forever explaining them on the forum. I like to travel. I like living in different cultures. I am not a conformist. Group pressure does not have any effect on me other than to make me more stubborn.
I like living in Edinburgh because it is chock full of foreigners and I’m just one more face in the crowd here. I find the Scots to be puzzling people but they’re likeable enough.
I do not hate the French nor the Germans.
I care about beautiful writing. Everybody will have their own opinion about what constitutes beautiful writing.
Cormac McCarthy. A brief comment about his books:
No Country for Old Men. Sparse, blood and bones writing. Works extremely well and would be a good lesson for anyone wanting to write a gripping tale. His characters come alive in the things they say and the things they do. Very little description otherwise. Just action, action, action.
The Road. Meant to be read in one sitting. If done so, the emotional pace of the book is amazing. It just rises up at the end and slays you, leaves you choking. A must read in that respect. But, having said that, on re-reading, you then realise it is a bit gimmicky somehow because McCarthy means to play you emotionally. It’s almost as if he is demonstrating how it can be done but in the showing, it cannot be done twice. The way he references the trout is sublime though and I admire it immensely. I can’t quite put my finger on how and why it works but it does.
The Border Trilogy. I loved these. They are the meat of his work. Not his best stuff, not his worst. Simply very well written, very enjoyable tales with tragic and tortured characters struggling within chaotic and unseen parameters in Mexico and the American Southwest.
Blood Meridian. Perhaps his best book. You will get argument about that I suppose. But there is something terrible and awe-inspiring in this tale. It is one of the most violent stories I have ever read. There are some passages, long paragraphs with no punctuation- just raw description and you realise, it has to be that way. The man is describing an apocolyptic vision of death in the form of men on horseback and it simply cannot be stopped. Not by comma, not by a dot. It’s just got to ride down on you, hooves and dust.
The Outer Dark. This is just a creepy story, and very funny for some reason. But a well written one. It devolves into the bizarre at the end.
Child of God. Sad.
Suttree. In my opinion, this is his best writing. Maybe not his best book but it is his most elaborate prose. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from No Country for Old Men. Perhaps because Suttree is somewhat autobiographical in nature McCarthy just lets himself go. Some of the passages in this book are just pure poetry. I like this kind of writing. I like a good story but I love to read the prose of someone who is gifted even more. I will read it just for the beauty, the story is secondary at that point to me. But very few writers are that good. McCarthy is one of them. And I think all in all, if you read Suttree, it makes you realise how astonishingly good No Country and The Road are because they are NOT written in that flourish with which he is demonstrably capable.
..............
I also love Joseph Conrad. Not so much for his prose as his dark, subliminal themes. My favorite is probably Nostromo but outside his celebrated novels I really like ‘The Rescue’. It seems he had Plato’s Cave on his mind when he wrote that one and I simply loved seeing how many metaphors and how much symbolism he had built into the story and its characters.
..............
More later....
The genuine conservatives at FR are decent people.
Stick around and get to know them. It could be a life changing experience. Most people here are good people.
If there is any way I can help you, let me know ... sorry about not being able to help you with html and margins. You might want to try this link for that:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2024261/posts
It might have what you are looking for.
If what you are looking for isn’t there, try a search on keyword, “html” (without the quotes). I hope this helps.
Take care.
That is the biggest load of steaming manure I have ever heard in my life.
Do you really believe that?
If you're that stupid, I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.
And note, religious people are lower forms of life in my opinion. I don't fear your deity.
Also, my member page no longer explains anything. I just deleted it.
Stupid and thoughtless for you to paste that here. That's really poor protocol.
In fact, and note- I almost never do this: don't bother me anymore. Even if I'm on fire. Don't trouble yourself to put me out.
INDEED.
But then . . . .
who but patriotic sane Christia Conservatives read The Bible or
LORD OF THE FLIES much any more?
Sigh.
What happened was socialism run amok. Expect to see lots of it coming to the US soon.
“Nonsense. There was no God in our house and all five of us are law abiding non-violent normal citizens. Probably animals to you since we don’t worship God...but your broad brush falls flat here.”
Curious broad-brush assumptions in your own comment.
I am curious what is used as a moral compass in your home, if you don’t mind me asking?
Do you consider yourselves atheists? Are you talking about you and your own family, or you growing up with your siblings? Does everyone still feel the same way?
I don’t mean to be nosy, but your statement brings up a lot of questions in my mind... I wouldn’t be offended if you didn’t want to answer.
“There was no God in our house and all five of us are law abiding non-violent normal citizens.”
One more question if you don’t mind... What do you consider “normal” and what defines that?
I think one is an atheist, one is a born again, and me and the other two are probably agnostic or don't think about it much.
I appreciate your answers, and saw your posts here to the others. I don’t know how old you are so if you are a survivor of Roe vs. Wade or not, but it sounds like you made it through some very tough challenges. It’s apparent you have a strong spirit.
The Bible says the Creator made us in his image, which makes us different from animals. There are who aren’t as strong... At a tender age the yong are taught today and that man is an animal and that lfe is so worthless a baby can be murdered before being born.
Over the years I’ve observed a type of depravity emerging among children and young adults who are for all purposes feral. There seems to be many more sick stories these days and I imagine it will get worse as the root grows deeper and stronger.
Pleased know I am in no position to make a judgement of your heart, only God can do that. I can observe an action and know if it is right or wrong. There was a time in my life when I didn’t believe the Bible was the Word of God—and that He created us in His image—but it came to me slowly over the years. All I know is that I could never go back to the way I used to be, now that I see the light (see my screen name).
Thank God you and your siblings—and I—survived. Blessings.
Jackbooted socialist tyrants?
My response when some liberal wants to circumscribe my liberty even farther "For the Chillllllldren", is "Which children? If they need a ever-expanding totalitarian government to survive, they can't be much good to themselves or anyone else anyway. Why would we weaken the species by enabling THEM?"
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