Debunking the mystery of BYU: School isn't weird or cultish, just into clean living

The Oklahoman ^ | August 29, 2009 | By Jake Trotter

[VoiceOfBruck]

Yes, thanks, I understand that it’s a religious observance, and I certainly don’t object to any of those you mention. But putting aside for a moment the reflexive objectivity, I think most people would agree that wearing special underwear to ward off sin just a _little_ difficult to take seriously.

[Graybeard58]

Especially the "Porcelain God."

I used to bow down before that god on occasion. I was compelled!

Now, I bow to the living God.

[SoConPubbie]

Faith without works is like a dead body without a spirit. Says so in the Bible, so it must be true.

Yes, that is true, however, if your Christianity is real, the works come after your faith in Christ allows him to save you and change you, not before. For before you are saved, you can work no good works, all of your works are evil because your heart is evil.

Mormons have a heavy reliance on Works as part of their salvation.

Romans 11:5-6:

5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galations 2:16

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[SoConPubbie]

You’re so right! I also have problems with their attitude towards the Book of Mormon. “If any one adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book” (Rev. 22:18) and “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed” (Gal 1:8).

Exactly.

If, as they say in their commercials, the bible is a revelation from God and in that revelation, Christ, the Perfect Son of God, and his Apostles(New Testament) and Prophets(Old Testament) lay out the path to salvation, why the need for another book?

They can't have it both ways.

Either Jesus is the Perfect Son of God and his declare pathway to Heavan is perfect and complete (since he is a Perfect God) or the Bible is not a revelation or Testament of God and cannot be trusted.

[Ditter]

I just saw 2 young men on bicycles near my house. I haven’t seen any of the Morman boys in a very long time.

[Coldwater Creek]

I’ll take an Okie over a Mormon any day!

[NoRedTape]

"I just saw 2 young men on bicycles near my house. I haven’t seen any of the Morman boys in a very long time."

I think the mormon dudes on bikes are doing a great thing for manufacturers of short sleeve white shirts.

And YES, they are very nice folk. They ain't Christian, but they are good, hardworking folk.

Joe Smith drank alcohol quite often, why can't other momons?

Personally, I could never trust someone who didn't imbibe, in moderation or not.

 

[Tennessee Nana]

Jesus said of Himself...

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right by her actions.” Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34, 35

[Tennessee Nana]

The Book of Mormon: The Testimony of Another Jesus...

[Mr Rogers]

In the 70s, folks on the Utah State football team said BYU played dirtier than anyone else on the schedule. You just assumed they would cheat, and then BYU would do worse.

[Mr Rogers]

There is also a difference between in-state and out of state Mormons. Most of the latter are sincere. Most of the former are so by birth. The difference in behavior is noticeable.

That said, I spent 7 happy years in Logan Utah...

[Colofornian]

From the article: "I hear it all the time, that if you go there, you must be weird, must be part of a cult,” Brule said. "When I tell people I went to BYU, they ask me if I have three wives. That’s been gone for years. It’s a misconception of BYU and the Mormon culture.”

Point #1: It doesn't take a Mormon to "have three wives" -- plenty of divorced men do. (Just one at a time) The difference between a Mormon and non-Mormon with three wives these days isn't the # of wives, it's the expectation of the Mormon that he'll eventually live simultaneously with all three! Lds are unique that way in making the un-Jesus like claim that marriages are forever.

Point #2 re: so-called "misconception of Mormon culture" -- Mr. Brule is the one so misconceiving. He does this in a few ways:

One way is that the flds & other polygamous Mormon break-off sects are still "children" of Mormon culture. (And they still engage in polygamy). Most of these are not ex-Mormons 'cause they were never ex-communicated from the Lds church. They are simply "retro" Mormons -- the way Mormons were 100-150 years ago.

The key point here is that if flds doesn't reflect Mormon culture, then neither does 19th and early 20th-century Mormonism!

Another way Brule "misconceives" Mormon culture is that he forgets that Mormons think "Mormon culture" extends to the afterlife. If that were to be true, then much of "afterlife Mormonism" features polygamy.

Mr. Brule is only thinking about Provo Mormon culture -- which is distinctive even from other concentrated components of Mormon culture. He, therefore, engages on projection.

[Elsie]

 

Debunking the mystery of BYU: School isn't weird or cultish, just into clean living

 

O...

        K...

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

Professor Robert Millet        teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

---

 

 

Timeline...    Subject...

 

0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

[aruanan]

Debunking the mystery of BYU: School isn't weird or cultish, just into clean living

The BJU of the west?

[Elsie]

Kinda funny when Brigham Young himself wore a beard!

Go ahead; ANTI!!

Just bring up a lot MORE stuff that our Blessed Brigham did and taught and you get nothing but a blank stare back in return!!

--MormonDude(We do NOT believe [I think...] that stuff HE taught for years, anymore!)

(I was told, anyway...)

[Elsie]

They are permitted everything you mentioned except the coffee. Even Coke if they so choose.

 

Then they PROBABLY won't be   Temple Worthy®

 

 

 

 

 

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

[Elsie]

I'm not Mormon, by the way, but I think making fun of their "special undies" is not much different from making fun of a Jew's yarmulke, or a Sikh's turban, or a Catholic's rosary.

Well, since you are NOT a Mormon© then you PROBABLY do not know the COMPLETE significance of the 'garments'.

I'm sure some of our FORMER LDS members can enlighten you.

(The PRESENT ones tend to pass over anything that is not 'meat' in their way of thinking.)

[Elsie]

Says so in the Bible, so it must be true.

The BIBLE says lots of things that the LDS Organization® has twisted and ignored.

And that IS true!

[Elsie]

I think calling someone’s religious observance “cultish” is in violation of the injunction you yourself quoted, i.e. not to pass judgment or look down on one whose religious practices differ from your own.

 

 

Ya know... I kinda agree with you on this point!!

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

[Elsie]

except the coffee. Even Coke if they so choose.

Coffee - caffeine..no sugar...

Coke - caffeine ...lots of sugar for the addicts in Utah...

Tractor Guy - this is right up your alley!