Posted on 07/24/2009 7:12:47 PM PDT by daisy mae for the usa
U.S. Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, 1401, (a) - (h), defines who lawfully qualifies as citizens by birth. This law was passed as of January 8, 2008. Section (g) is quite relevant to the citizenship of our president.
no link. no comment. no statement. ??
You suck at the internet.
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
Rules in 1962 were slightly different.
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Find law
Section 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United
States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an
Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided,
That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not
in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person
to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States
or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such
person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United
States who has been physically present in the United States or
one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one
year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is
a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United
States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States
who has been physically present in the United States or one of
its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at
any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States
while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his
attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in
the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United
States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an
alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to
the birth of such person, was physically present in the United
States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods
totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were
after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any
periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United
States, or periods of employment with the United States
Government or with an international organization as that term is
defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any
periods during which such citizen parent is physically present
abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of
the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed
Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States
Government or an international organization as defined in section
288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the
physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso
shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24,
1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its
present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24,
1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of
an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United
States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the
United States.
“Congress cannot by any definition it may adopt conclude the matter, since it cannot by legislation alter the Constitution, from which alone it derives its power to legislate, and within whose limitations alone that power can be lawfully exercised.”
EISNER v. MACOMBER , 252 U.S. 189
Congress cannot by legislation attempt to define or redefine terms used in the Constitution. Whatever was meant when the Constitution was drafted is the law of the land.
Bingo.
Daisy, The 1401 statute does not cover natural born citizen as it pertains to the office of the presidency. It only covers “citizen” in general and “US Nationals”.
First since February I see of only a few since you signed on.
I got your 1401 message.
Don’t conflate “citizenship” with “natural-born citizenship.”
That has no relevance to the requirements of the President of the United States. He must be natural-born, not just a U.S. citizen.
He freely admitted through his affiliated website that he had a Kenyan citizenship by virtue of his Kenyan father that automatically expired in 1982. He is not natural born, regardless of place of birth.
A citizen, maybe (even that has not been definitively proven), but certainly not natural born.
If they COULD redefine terms then they could change the meaning of “ex post facto” to ‘dealing with FedEx’ an then proceed to retroactively eradicate bribery, graft, corruption, and treason laws JUST BEFORE retroactively granting Natural Born citizenship to Obama.... “He was born, naturally”
Citizen at Birth does NOT equal Natural Born Citizen
"There is absolutely nothing in that U.S. Statute, USC Title 8 Section 1401, that grants “natural born citizenship" to anyone. The legal term of art “natural born citizen” is not even mentioned in that law. USC Title 8 Section 1401 only determines by law who is a “citizen” or a “national” of the U.S. at birth, i.e., a basic "citizen at birth". The Section 1401 law is a naturalization law which grants citizenship by law, not by nature. The legal term of art “citizen at birth” is not the same legally as the legal term of art “natural born citizen”. Simply note that in one case we are talking about who is at least an ordinary, basic “citizen” at birth with no adjectives in front of the word citizen, and in the other case we have two very important adjectives placed in front of the word citizen by the framers of the Constitution, i.e., “natural born” citizen. That specific type of citizenship and "legal term of art" was codified by Vattel in his legal treatise "The Law of Nations", published in 1758, in which he said that ... a natural born citizen is a person born in the country to parents who are both citizens of the country. And this group or class of citizens are the most populous group of any nation.
Most citizens of the USA are natural born citizens. Most citizens of the USA were born in the USA to two parents who were citizens of the USA. And that is the pool of citizens that must be chosen from for the singular most powerful office in our nation, the President and Commander-in-Chief of our military. Simple citizenship at birth by being born in the USA without regard to the citizenship status of both your parents ... or by naturalization and swearing an oath to this country and renouncing all allegiances foreign kings, princes, and potentates later as an adult, is adequate for the offices of Senator, Representative, or a Governor of a state. But it is not sufficient to be the President under Article II, to Constitutional standards. Article II requires that the person to be eligible to be President must be a "natural born citizen". And that means that person must be born in the USA ... AND ... both his parents must be citizens of the USA."
I beg to differ. Citizen at birth does equal natural born. There are two types of citizenship. Natural born and Naturalized. If he wasn’t naturalized then he is natural born.
note that the courts have already decided that Goldwater was natural born (in Mexico).
Note also that the current statute applies since it was retroactive.
If natural born citizen status requires both parents to be US citizens, then Obama, being born of a Kenyan dad is not a natural born citizen.
We don’t need his birth cert. so why has the whole question been resting on a piece of paper?
Under your scenario that a person born of a non-citizen parent or even 2 non-citizen parents on U.S. soil would equal natural born here's what can happen:
1. Jihadist Pakistani comes into the U.S. marries a braindead American woman who gives birth to his child in the U.S. - child is taken back to Pakistan and raised in a Jihadist Madrassa. At the age of 35 child/adult returns to the U.S. as a manchurian and runs for President for the explicit purpose of undermining/subverting/destroying the United States from within.
2. 2 Jihadist Pakistanis come into the U.S. - give birth - return to Pakistan and raise the child as a non-American in a Jihadist Madrassa. At the age of 35 manchurian adult/child returns and runs for President attempting to subvert/undermine/destroy the U.S.
Are you so uninformed and uneducated as to honestly believe that our Founding Fathers had NOT THOUGHT THIS THROUGH HAVING JUST SURVIVED A REVOLUTIONARY WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!??!
Neither the 14th amendment, nor any U.S. Supreme Court decision, nor any Act of Congress has changed the original common law definition of an Article II ‘natural born citizen’ distinguishable from ‘a citizen’. Which is: ‘those children born in the country, of parents who are citizens.’ See The Law of Nations by Emerich De Vattel, Book 1, c. 19, sec. 212 (1758). The Framers of the U.S. Constitution drew heavily on De Vattel. The following are SCOTUS cases who have ruled that natural born = born to 2 citizen parents on U.S. soil:
• Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) – same definition as Vattel.
• Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875) – same definition as Vattel.
• Ex parte Reynolds, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 – same definition as Vattel and actually cites Vattel in this case.
• United States v. Ward, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D.Cal. 1890) – same definition as Vattel and actually cites Vattel in this case.
That this definition is the legally correct definition is proven by the U.S. Congress' attempts to RE-DEFINE the term 30 times since the 1870's. FIVE of those 30 attempts have been since 2001. In 2008 the Senate issued a Resolution (S.R. 511) that affirmed John McCain's NATURAL BORN citizenship based upon having been born on a U.S. military base (jus solis) AND having been born to TWO (not one) but TWO citizen parents (jus sanquis).
Here's a chart of FIVE different citizenship terms found in the Constitution
Defining Natural Born from the Federalist Papers Pay particular attention to what "Natural Born CANNOT Mean...."
If you are reading impaired Try This
That's a legitimate point. However, until we see Barry's original long form certificate we really don't have 100% certainly WHO Obama's father is, or really WHO his mother is for that matter. We've been TOLD its Stanley Dunham, and Barack Obama Sr. but do we REALLY have than certifiably PROVEN? No. All we really know right now is what Barry has told us.
Imagine trying to get a passport and telling the passport office circumstances of your birth and then when the passport office asks you for certifiable proof you just say, "I've told you alreaddy, you have to trust me on this." Would you get a passport??!?? But this is precisely what Barry has done to gain access to our Presidency!
We really know nothing more or less. What we do know is he has lied consistently and regularly on a whole variety of topics. So if we can determine truthfully who his father was FIRST, then we can move on to the other points...
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
It clearly does not say a citizen is any "person born in the United States." it adds "and subject to the jurisdiction therof"
So all these illegals who come here and plop out a baby are NOT LEGAL CITIZENS
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