My advice would be to only shoot the .22 shorts and NONE OF THE ABOVE until you have a qualified gunsmith look at it.
Posted on 07/04/2009 4:13:35 PM PDT by Perdogg
I am now in posession of a Savage Arms Steven's Model 15 .22 bolt-action rifle. It was my father's, but it must have been built and sold about 1950. It is all wood and steel. The bolt is a little sticky and I will probably have to lube and clean it. There is some rust on the exterior barrel.
The problem is I am having trouble finding ammo for it. It says .22 short/long ammo on the barrel.
The questions I have are as follows
1) I found .22 Magnum Gamepoint CCI Rimfire Cartridge, 40-Grain JSP Lead Bullet, 1875 fps, 40 Rounds at walmart, will this work?
2) Is there any danger given the age of the rifle of firing the rifle given it's age.
I could take it to Dick's, they allow weapons in the store, but they don't have the ammo.
Thank you,
The kind that believes it will be illegal within three years since it cannot be marked with the laser and is not reloadable.
I believe the case is the same size, but the overall lengths are different, the LR using a slightly longer bullet. The overall length for the .22 long is 0.798 inches. The LR is 0.985.
Could be, I’ve seen old rifles that would only shoot short. I’ve never seen one that would shoot short and long but not long rifle. If length is the problem then he probably wouldn’t able to close the bolt.
Just because you work in a gun store, it doesn't make you an expert on guns, it makes you a good salesman. How many ladies have possession of a .22 Jetfire because it's cute and small and the salesman said it's just as good as a 45?
Take the gun to an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor or to a certified Range Officer.
You MUST shoot ONLY .22 Long or .22 SHORT and NOTHING else, Especially NOT 22 LONG RIFLE
This is what is available at the listed source I gave with quantities and prices which are very good.
WX2-10549 CCI® Rimfire .22 Short 27 Gr. HP 100 rds. $7.67 Club Price $7.29
WX2-131974 CCI® Rimfire .22 Short 27 Gr. HP 1,000 rds. $72.97 Club Price $69.32
WX2-12261 CCI® Rimfire .22 Short 27 Gr. HP 2,500 rds. $189.97 Club Price $180.47
I highly advise joining the Buyer's Club. I did and it paid for itself the first time I used it and I have renewed (same price of about $30) for the last several years.
Right, that’s why he needs to be careful because this model was first brought out in 1936. No doubt if his gun was made in the 50’s it’s chambered for LR too, but I’d bet his gun doesn’t have a serial number where he could check it out with Savage.
My advice would be to only shoot the .22 shorts and NONE OF THE ABOVE until you have a qualified gunsmith look at it.
“Right, that’s why he needs to be careful because this model was first brought out in 1936.”
The LR cartridge was invented before 1936. He needs to be careful regardless.
I have a similiar case, my uncle had some quite old firearms that I’ve never fired for this same reason. One is a Remington 870 12 ga thats probably 40 years old. If I hadn’t recently lost it in a lake (horrible fishing accident) I would be concerned about shooting it. I might even do a test fire using sand bags to hold it or something.
Of course a 12 ga has substantially more powder than a 22.
You made the statement, so you’ll have to provide the evidence that longs are less accurate than shorts.
I’ve got my grandfather’s old 870 made in the 50s. It shoots well, but it’s 16 gauge. Nobody ever runs a special on 16 gauge shells!
“You made the statement, so you’ll have to provide the evidence that longs are less accurate than shorts.”
I doubted it as well but most of the sources that talk about it say the same. I think its due to the light bullet weight.
Yes, they are the same size, the powder charge and bullet weight is different. Long rifles should not be fired in a gun meant for longs. Period.
BEFORE I READ THE REST OF THE REPLIES, LET ME SAY THIS:
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!!!!!!!!! WRONG answer.
.22LR is DIFFERENT from .22Long .... DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SHOOT .22LR is a rifle chambered for .22 short/long .... it's a HUGE mistake. You were right about the .22mag though .... :)
Regards
CCI makes a CB Long. It isn’t a full powered long round, it has the power of a BB cap, which is just the primer for power. But being a long case, it is much easier to get ahold of and load. It makes a sound like a pellet gun but hits hard enough for pigeon and rabbit work. Last time I bought some, they were also cheaper than shorts. But that was a few years ago. It will be safe in any old gun as long as the bore is clear.
Old Gun Catalog Reprint Ping - Looks like a darn interesting site to me, especially for that 1914 Savage .22 Rifle I have.
thanks for the link ,,,, book marked for future reference ,,,
This was an experiment of the past century and should have died at birth. However, it is still made for hardware store clerks who do not wish to explain about the long rifle cartridge. It combines the short bullet in a long rifle case and lacks the accuracy of either. Forget it. ~Jeff Cooper
".22 Long"
The .22 Long was developed around 1871 to increase the power of the .22 Short by increasing the powder capacity. It is becoming obsolete; it is no longer manufactured by Federal, Remington, or Winchester. It uses the same case as the Long Rifle and the same 29 grain bullet as the .22 Short. This has proved to be a bad combination, inherently less accurate than either the Short or Long Rifle. I am convinced that the .22 Long has survived for as long as it has because young or uninformed shooters think that it must be a hot number, given its light .22 short bullet in front of what they presume to be a .22 LR powder charge. I know that my father believed this when he was a boy. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
The .22 Long comes in standard velocity and high velocity versions. The latter launches a 29 grain copper plated lead bullet at a velocity of 1,240 fps with 99 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" barrel. This is 145 fps faster than the Short launches the same bullet, but 15 fps slower than the Long Rifle high velocity load fires its heavier 40 grain bullet.
There are better .22's than the Long for any purpose. Certainly, the more accurate and more powerful Long Rifle should always be chosen over the Long for small game hunting. ~ Chuck Hawks
In my own opinion it was a mismatch of case volume and bullet weight, only made worse when the change to smokeless powder occured, which filled much less case volume and probably lead to less consistent propellant ignition and burning. Other former black powder cartridges have exhibited this, especially with small powder charges - Trail Boss powder was recently introduced to make high volume light charges possible for SASS shooters, particularly in the .45 Colt.
There were a number of later variants (15a, 15b, etc.) and it is possible that Savage later lengthened the chamber to accept .22 Long Rifle cartridges. If that is the case, any gunsmith should be able to ream the chamber in your rifle to .22LR specs - if he deems the rifle to be in good shape. Whether the rifle is worth the expense is up to you.
In the meantime, the .22 Short and Long ammo is available - just not very common.
.22 LONG, not .22 Long Rifle.
Perdogg will have better luck finding Shorts than Longs. I've seen shorts recently, at least before the latest run on .22s in general, but I don't recall ever seeing longs, although I've fired many guns which could chamber shorts, longs, or long rifle. In fact most any that will chamber LR will chamber the others, although semi-autos may have feeding issues and the lighter catridges may not cycle the action. But it doesn't work the other way. A gun chambered for .22 Longs should not be used for Long Rifles, although it probably won't chamber them properly anyway.
The center three are Short, Long and Long Rifle.
.22 Short .22 Long Rifle
I used to buy Shorts for my wife's grandfather's Belgian made Browning .22 semi-auto rifle. That was back after the '68 Gun Control Act, and before the '86 Firearms Owners Protection Act. You had to show ID and sign a log, to purchase any ammo that could be used in a handgun. I'd show my military (officer's) ID, just for the Irony of the situation.
BTW, the Browning was a beautiful weapon. Probably still is, which ever of my two brothers in law scarfted it up after my father in law passed away. (Which of course was somewhat after his father, the original owner, passed. Although Grandpa was 90+, while FIL was still in his late '70s when he passed. My own grandpa was 99+)
Someone whose only rifle was a Belgian Browning chambered for .22 short? Like this one. Spitting image of my wife's grandfather's gun, except the scope is different, I think.
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