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What of Freemasonry?
The "Net" | May 23, 2009 | logic 'n reason

Posted on 05/24/2009 10:20:53 AM PDT by Logic n' Reason

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To: mcswan

OK, I’m not particularly surprised.


221 posted on 05/25/2009 3:04:50 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bummer administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: mcswan

It is those here protesting the most, that know the least.

As I stand by my original post: the world breaks down between the good and the bad. Freemasons, are the good guys.

Always have been, always will. The good guys come in all colors, shapes, sizes and understanding of their religions.

It is a good thing.


222 posted on 05/25/2009 3:37:49 PM PDT by edcoil (IF CA rolls pollution standards back to 1990 levels, lets roll CA spending back as well.)
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To: mcswan

What’s the “Morgan Affair” ???


223 posted on 05/25/2009 4:23:48 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: blackie

“Wrong!!”

NOT.


224 posted on 05/25/2009 4:53:28 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: Boucheau

“I have no idea what your opinion is except a very broad and ignorant statement about Freemasonry and Christianity.”

So you say. I say otherwise from study and comparison.

Care to disprove me?


225 posted on 05/25/2009 4:55:23 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: longtermmemmory
Pope John Paul changed that, he said freemasonry is not incompatible with christianity. (per history channel)

You are unfortunately misinformed, possibly due to your source, the channel with all the shows about UFOs. For much discussion and better sourcing than yours please see posts #55, 58, 76, 78, 84, 93, 148, and 175 above.

226 posted on 05/25/2009 6:42:43 PM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla ("men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." -- Edmund Burke)
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To: Tennessee Nana

In the early 1800’s a man named William Morgan, living in western New York state, became a Mason by taking at least one degree. There were apparently many conflicts between Morgan and other men in the small villages of the area both before and after he was initiated into the fraternity, leading to several arrests of Morgan for various crimes. Some of these arrests seemed to be for real offenses and some trumped up charges. After one of these arrests Morgan was never seen again. There was a great deal of speculation that the local Masons had abducted and murdered him.

There were many unanswered questions about this entire incident, (no one seemed to have all the details) but one thing happened for certain; anti-Masonic sentiments, throughout New York, and the rest of the country, reached a very high pitch. Masons had until that time enjoyed a great deal of power and, therefore, engendered a great deal of resentment; enough resentment so that the Anti-Masonic political party was formed. This party actually manged to get many sate and local officials elected, including the governor of Pennsylvania, and actually nominated William Henry Harrison as their candidate for president in, I believe 1938.

Masonry went through a dramatic decline in popularity and membership as a result of this backlash against what was seen as arrogance and misuse of power by the Masons.


227 posted on 05/25/2009 6:46:59 PM PDT by mcswan
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To: mcswan
Masonry is NOT about salvation...

True; but it IS about Good Works; is it not?

Many folks with only a secular knowledge of 'religion' will accept a GOD out there - one that the world defines as accepting 'good' people into heaven.

Not knowing what GOD really wants; they think that by their 'good works' they will be acceptable to GOD; thereby giving them false hope in the future.

'SALVATION' need never be mentioned to achieve Satan's plan of making men miss the mark.

228 posted on 05/25/2009 6:48:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tennessee Nana

oops, I mean 1838.


229 posted on 05/25/2009 6:50:22 PM PDT by mcswan
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To: Kansas58
I am just not convinced that Christianity and Masonry are completely non compatible.

The logic as I see it is that if Masonry would expect a Muslim to drop such essential parts of the Koran, they would also demand the same of a Christian. I don't say that they are totally incompatible, as both churchs and Masons do build hospitals. It is just that mostly compatible can be a mask for being totally incompatible based on one very important point of incompatibility.

230 posted on 05/25/2009 6:53:57 PM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: Elsie

Elie,

I understand your concern but I do think that most people are able to differentiate between the church (salvation is a gift of grace and cannot be earned by good works) and Masonry (an organization that encourages good works but makes no claims about salvation.)

The entire issue of salvation and good works has been a thorny one throughout the history of the church. But people who sincerely search for God’s will come to understand that good works comes as a result of accepting Christ as savior; the salvation comes first and Christian good works flows from that. Paul spent a great deal of his ministry and writings explaining this to the new followers of Jesus.


231 posted on 05/25/2009 6:58:20 PM PDT by mcswan
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To: slowhandluke

Slowhand,

This argument makes a lot of sense if the understanding of Christian theology is that the essence of Christ’s message is social ministry without the primary emphasis being on His death and resurrection and gift of salvation. For me, the essential truth of Christ’s message is the salvation, and social ministry (good works) is secondary, flowing from the salvation. This is true because accepting Christ is a life-changing experience, we are truly transformed from “me centered” to “other centered” followers determined to live a life of humility, service, and sacrifice.

I really don’t think that two distinct institutions, both of which encourage moral behavior and “ good works”, are incompatible when they don’t make similar metaphysical claims.


232 posted on 05/25/2009 7:06:42 PM PDT by mcswan
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To: Logic n' Reason

I am an avid Freemason and a devout Christian. I can see no incompatibilities at all whatsoever.


233 posted on 05/26/2009 2:45:53 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: editor-surveyor

> That would be pertinent if it were not for the many immoral oaths that one must swear to be a Mason in good standing.

What immoral oaths are you talking about?

I am a Master Mason in good standing, and I have not been required to swear ANY immoral oaths — far less “many” as you claim.


234 posted on 05/26/2009 2:51:56 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: proudtobeanamerican1
I have another question. If religion and politics are not to be discussed in the “lodge”, how does this obviously political group conduct business? Is the “lodge” a seperate room in their buildings or only during ceremonies? Do they only talk about it in private meetings?

"lodge" can be referring to many things, the building, the specific room in which meetings are held, or the meeting itself. religion and politics -at least in my lodge- aren't discussed while lodge is in session. we will, however, discuss politics and religion before and after meetings. politics are very interesting conversations, as we have a couple guys well into their 80s. don't know about other lodges, but mine is more charitable than political.
235 posted on 05/26/2009 4:43:35 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (thank God for Chicago: makes Detroit look wholesome by comparison.)
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To: servantboy777
Freemasonry is full of rituals, oaths, symbolism.....these things the scriptures warn against.

and the catholic church isn't?
no offense, but that's something that has always turned me off of the catholic church, the symbolism and and ritual, and at one point (when i was marrying a catholic) the demand for me become catholic and to promise and swear how i would raise my children.
i'm not trying to bash catholics here, i've never been to any church that doesn't have some sort of ritual and symbolism; the cross- empty or occupied, the flame, the dove, the star, the olive branch.. communion, baptism, confirmation, dedication, anoitment with oil, etc. catholics, IMO, just seem to take the ritual further.
236 posted on 05/26/2009 5:08:24 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (thank God for Chicago: makes Detroit look wholesome by comparison.)
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To: mcswan; Desdemona
the all seeing eye was also used as a symbol of egyptian gods millenia before the christian church becan to use it.

237 posted on 05/26/2009 5:23:46 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (thank God for Chicago: makes Detroit look wholesome by comparison.)
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To: proudtobeanamerican1

proudtobeanamerical1 asked:

“I have another question. If religion and politics are not to be discussed in the “lodge”, how does this obviously political group conduct business? Is the “lodge” a separate room in their buildings or only during ceremonies? Do they only talk about it in private meetings?’

When attending a Masonic meeting, there are social gatherings both before and after the official business during which we are free to discuss any subject we want. Once the lodge is tiled, restricted to members only, nothing other than Masonic rituals and official business is permitted.

It’s been my experience in my own lodge, and all other lodges I’ve attended (and I’ve sat in a LOT of lodges in several states), even during the social gatherings we avoid political and religious discussions. This is precisely because we are such a diverse group and have the goal of promoting moral behavior, not advancing political or religious agendas.


238 posted on 05/26/2009 5:44:20 AM PDT by mcswan
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To: absolootezer0
>>and the catholic church isn't?<<

The difference is that one is attempting to lead folks toward our savior, the other subscribes to lodge and brotherhood first and foremost.

If you don't believe Jesus’ own words, “ I am the way, I am the Truth, I am the Life, NOONE comes to the Father, but through me.” Then I guess all this is irrelevant.

There can be no GAOTU. It is a universalist doctrine. If you believe the previous comments concerning Jesus Christ, then that would make GAOTU a false god and a false doctrine.

This is why FM does not use the I AM statements made by Jesus, this would cause division within the lodge among Jewish brothers, Islamic brothers, or whatever.

239 posted on 05/26/2009 7:11:43 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777

El Shaddai (God of Might), Yahweh (I AM, the Eternal God), God Our Creator, The Holy and Righteous One, God our Fortress and Protector, Adonai, El-Olam (everlasting Godd), Wonderful Counselor, The King Of The Nations, Immanuel, Judge Of The Living And The Dead, King Of Kings And Lord Of Lords, The Way, The Truth, And The Life, The Alpha And The Omega.

All these are biblical ways of referring to an ineffable (I hope you know what that means, servantboy) God. All false God by your reasoning?


240 posted on 05/26/2009 7:41:12 AM PDT by mcswan
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